underwater death and suicide

[GeekDiver]

Since diving is an unatural event (breathing air underwater etc..etc..) I don't think most would take that way out. The fear of drowning is what makes this a hard sport for alot of people to get started in or excel. I think the divers who contenue on and enjoy the sport may not "fear" drowning but develope a respect for the "what if " while under water. It's this underling fear of drowning that makes us train to be better divers, the training allows us to overcome and keep that same "fear" in check.

The other thing is that I think most avid divers tend to have a zest for life. I also belive most are a determined buch, who deal with the matters of life and as matter of pride and self reward. How many divers are there that are dive pros that have been there when things went bad. These same people who "made a differance" when no one else could. I think divers tend to be a hardy bunch who excel against the odds so I would think suicide would be very rare among true divers no matter what the method was. When I say true divers I not refering to the ones who got a cert to say they've been there done that. Or the ones who make 3-4 dives a year under the watchfull eyes of a DM.

Although I think a diver may joke about something like this I could hardly belive a true, avid diver would ever consider suicide by any means least of all the water which is often the one place we often perfer to be. I think your article although thought provoking would be useless and would only cause harm to the sport due to the negative context.

Do you feel the lure of the sea's depths to be the ideal method of peaceful and eternal sleep? Do you have any experiences with other divers that smack of suicide?

Divers that "smack" of suicide, come on now. Stupid divers who don't know any better, who get bent cuz they don't know how to dive? yes but suicide divers yea right I don't think so.

MY question is since diving stats are so lame as to the actual cause of death insted what are the stats of suicide in or out of the water who were divers.

Think about this. It cost to dive. It takes time to learn to dive and then time out of your life to go diving. People who have the time and the money to dive will be in more control of there life than someone who is working 24x7 just to make ends meet or were too worried about there SO, wife, husband, family etc..etc wouldn't take off and leave them to go diveing. Alot of diving is in some controlled enviroment such as a liveabord or feq dive training site. If people were thought of as unstable or unsafe who would risk the liability of letting them dive.

I hope if you write this article you'll actualy have some objective stats and not use some dark fearmongering BS about this.

Geek

 

[ColdH20diving]

I have seen first hand the aftermath of several suicides and drownings. I feel bad for the accidental drownings, knowing the panic they must have gone through in the last few moments. For those that take their own lives, well, I guess I shouldn't judge them. But let me tell you what ever pain they left behind is now put upon their loved ones. Not to mention the images and emotions of those that have to clean the mess. I love being in and near water. I'm not afraid of the water, but do have a healthy respect for it. If ever the victim a scuba diving accident, the worst thing anyone could say was that he died doing what he loved. Bull Sh!@,

 

[Dive_Girl PNW]

rmediver2002 once bubbled...
My two biggest fears are:

1) burning to death
2) drowning

How about being eaten alive? I think it would be just horrible to be gnawed on bit by bit conscious all the while...

Ok back on this weird thread topic, I wonder if those that may have committed suicide underwater would have possibly been narced? So who knows what they went through or felt?

 

[alaity47]

Yeah... being narced is the only thing I can think of that would make death by diving appealing at all. Just head straight down until you get too loopy to even realize what's hapepning to you.

Of course, I'd guess you're just as likely to narc yourself into all sorts of scary last-minute thoughts as peaceful ones, so it's still not the way I'd want to go!

 

[DiveDuo]

Thanks to all who have responded to my enquiries so far.

No, this is not a "troll," which I only know as a small fairy-like gnome from the remote regions of Norway, but I assume you are asking if this is a sincere discussion or merely a joke.

I will tell you that this is most serious and the first three articlesof in the series have been printed and are readily available on the internet through Dive New Zealand/ Dive Australia Magazine websites.

Perchance I dive with a strange group of people in that we actually discuss what can and does happen at depth, but during the 8 years that I have been involved with tropical dive resorts in the Bahamas, I have been aware of four suicides by scuba.

I think we have all experienced the calm and peaceful aura that envelopes us when we are on a "Primo" dive. I think at least once, we have exclaimed that "this would be the way to go when the time comes." No one who is mentally balanced would seek such a demise before his scheduled appointment on the other side. However, suicide is not a mentally balanced proposition.

For some, suicide becomes an alternative and death by scuba is their chosen method. Rationally speaking, the suicide victim does not menatlly follow through the process and may not be aware that the eventual end is drowning and this is far from peaceful, painless or serene.

Without divulging names, there was a diver that will be highlighted in the final installment of the series. He went on a vacation in the Bahamas and spent a glorious week of diving, usually four dives a day. On his last dive of the holiday, he left his hired scooter secured on the wall and took the deep dive down in a location where the ocean bottoms out at 6,000 feet. He left a message to his wife on their answer machine .... yes, on the answering machine... telling her that he was committing suicide. An investigation revealed he had serious financial and business troubles and was to face the full force of the legal system shortly. I might also add that he left unpaid bills for the diving, the hotel and other holiday merriment for his wife to manage. This was without a doubt suicide. The final report cited drowning even though no body was ever recovered.

Whether suicide by scuba is a rational act is not the question because suicide by any means is not a rational act. If you have ever experienced "rapture of the deep" or a good dose of nitrogen narcosis, you can see that "drifting off" would be the ideal passage if you have to pass at all. However, we do not really relate the true nature of diving deaths during training because it is unwise to terrorize divers.

Think how long you had been diving before you were told WHY it was necessary to ascend slowly! If you had been told about embolisms, ruptures of the plural wall and exploding clots during your open water training, chances are you would not have left the shallow end of the pool. It is not until you are highly advanced in dive training that you learn scuba's possible perils and the ghastly consequences. I had been diving for over 15 years before I learned the "details" and that was when I attended medical school to become a diving medical officer and hyperbaric chamber specialist.

The bottom line is that divers are given minimal information that is scoped to prevent injury and death. They are not given the reasons why the emphasis on ascents and safety stops are so important until they are engrossed in the sport. Is this a financial decision to keep divers enrolled in open water courses or is this information on a "need-to-know" basis? The fact is that little information about the deadly consequences of scuba are revealed during basic training courses. Assuming that drifting off into the blue and succumbing to the nitrogen narcosis leads to a peaceful death is a side effect of the lack of information.

I am willing to bet that you have not experienced too many sincere conversations with professional divers on the subject of death at depth. If you are a diving professional, it is an unspoken hazard of the job/sport. We train at high levels of expertise to maintain our airway and conclude each dive safely and without injury. Drowning is neither.

Do you think that student divers should be better informed as to the physical hazards of diving? At what stage in training should they be imformed of the hazards and consequences?

And for those who do not think there are "suicidal cases" on their dive boats, when was the last time you saw a diver smoking before, between or 12 hours after a dive? When was the last time you saw a diver drink alchohol before or 12 hours after a dive? When was the last time you saw a diver extend his bottom time or cut short his safety stop? They may not have left a suicide note, but these simple practices could have the same results.

Thank you again for your comments and responses.

 

[Zagnut]

.. at a dive shop, the owner told me of a friend/customer of his who commited suicide this way. He was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was told he only had a short while to live. He went to Cozumel to go diving, and upon descent he just kept on descending. There was an article or something about the guy on the wall that the dive shop that the owner pointed to, although I didn't read it.

I guess it might be better than withering away in a hospital bed from terminal cancer...although, I don't think I could do it.

 

[lragsac]

alaity47 once bubbled...
Yeah... being narced is the only thing I can think of that would make death by diving appealing at all. Just head straight down until you get too loopy to even realize what's hapepning to you.

one could also add some O2 to the mix, go deep to push the PO2 beyond 1.4 and wait for ox tox. You'd probably never know what hit you.

 

[GeekDiver]

So you say you know of 4 divers in 8 yrs of diving. I would hardly call that a note worthy number. It only points out just how rare it would be. When I was in the Army I spent 13 mo in Korea. I knew alot more than 4 who tried to take there life or were placed on a suicide watch and removed from there general duties.

"And for those who do not think there are "suicidal cases" on their dive boats, when was the last time you saw a diver smoking before, between or 12 hours after a dive? When was the last time you saw a diver drink alchohol before or 12 hours after a dive? When was the last time you saw a diver extend his bottom time or cut short his safety stop? They may not have left a suicide note, but these simple practices could have the same results"

No I wouldn't call them suicidal just stupid. How can unsafe practices of people be related to people who are unstable? People who drink or extend there dive times arn't unstable they just either lack understanding, judgement or pushed the limits. yes the end result may be the same but you can't compair the motive behind the actions. How many people drink and drive. Does that make the suicidal, no just problem drinkers or people who lacked Judgement. There is enough BS about diving and it's my thought we don't need more BS just for the sake of a story to read.

It sounds like your just desperate for a story and death, deepwater and suicide have all the trapings of good BS. Kinda like all the shark stories that are out there. All we need now is some kook writing about how deranged divers are.

Do us a favor past a link so we can read what kind of stuff your putting out. If its a bunch of BS will know if your serious or not. Show us what research you've done on this other than post some ramblings on about I heard this or I heard that.

 

[ScubaSky]

I have never been in the mental state that those who have attempted or succeeded in suicide have been in. But my involvement in Law Enforcement and the EMS services has shown me that a great many attempts fail due to a change of mind at the last minute. there have even been cases where a change of mind was evident but they were unable to reverse their actions and therefore succeeded.

I would be interested to see if there were a certain number of people who made a dive intending to not return, changed their mind as they ran on air? That is a lot of time to think about the things that are worth living for! (again I have never been in that mind set)

For what it is worth?

 

[DiverBuoy]

__DiveDuo wrote_____
Whether suicide by scuba is a rational act is not the question because suicide by any means is not a rational act. If you have ever experienced "rapture of the deep" or a good dose of nitrogen narcosis, you can see that "drifting off" would be the ideal passage if you have to pass at all. However, we do not really relate the true nature of diving deaths during training because it is unwise to terrorize divers.

Think how long you had been diving before you were told WHY it was necessary to ascend slowly! If you had been told about embolisms, ruptures of the plural wall and exploding clots during your open water training, chances are you would not have left the shallow end of the pool. It is not until you are highly advanced in dive training that you learn scuba's possible perils and the ghastly consequences. I had been diving for over 15 years before I learned the "details" and that was when I attended medical school to become a diving medical officer and hyperbaric chamber specialist.

The bottom line is that divers are given minimal information that is scoped to prevent injury and death. They are not given the reasons why the emphasis on ascents and safety stops are so important until they are engrossed in the sport. Is this a financial decision to keep divers enrolled in open water courses or is this information on a "need-to-know" basis? The fact is that little information about the deadly consequences of scuba are revealed during basic training courses. Assuming that drifting off into the blue and succumbing to the nitrogen narcosis leads to a peaceful death is a side effect of the lack of information.

I am willing to bet that you have not experienced too many sincere conversations with professional divers on the subject of death at depth. If you are a diving professional, it is an unspoken hazard of the job/sport. We train at high levels of expertise to maintain our airway and conclude each dive safely and without injury. Drowning is neither.

Do you think that student divers should be better informed as to the physical hazards of diving? At what stage in training should they be imformed of the hazards and consequences? ____________________

While in your circles you may have encountered many agreeable responses to your observations about training failing to highlight the dangers of the deep, it simply has not been my experience. Just as your articles (as well as Media and sensationalist journalism) bears out our human facination with death and dying. We (instructors, students, and bystanders) love to talk about the subject. From the first visit to the scuba shop with that deer-in-the-headlights looks ALL I talked about and questioned was the dangers and the stories and the manners and the causes, I was fascinated about the subject.

No shop I have been affiliated with frowns upon these discussions, no shop I have been affiliated with black-lists words or phrases that are forbidden during class or on the shop floor with customers. We give them honestly and at a level they can comprehend whatever information they desire. We speak truth, we do not shield them from it. What I personally avoid is unfounded speculation, assumptions, rumors, and sensationalism - especially when speaking frankly with students.

All of my open water students do not even enter to pool for the first time with out having all of their current level of curiosity abou t the things you listed above - assuaged. And I'm merely a product of my instructors who did the same for me.

As for the subject at hand, suicide is as you so elequently stated not a normal proposition. It would be difficult for me to imagine what thoughts went through the head of the man who left the message on his wife's answering machine. Clearly, he loved her enough to leave the suicide "note" yet not enough to prevent saddling her with debt ... not the conciderations of a sane and coherant thinker. Then again we so rarely have an opportunity with men (who are something like 100 times more likely to succeed in suicide then women) to have an opportunity to discuss WHY afterwards. Popping the regulator out and inhaling deeply at 100+ feet is as successful a method as leaping from a tall building, or driving a car off of a cliff - there is rarely recovery.

My thoughts partly are drawn to the choice of death from the perspective of infamy (are they looking for a final shot at fame?). I'll conclude from what I've read and experienced in my lifetime only some suicides really intend to kill themselves and do not want to wake up later with sympathetic onlookers by their side, telling them how sorry they are they felt that had to do this. Taking sleeping pills on alchohol is likely to fail in something like 3 out of every four attempts. Slicing one's wrists in a bathtub has similiar failure rates. My conclusion? Simply this: a 100 foot inhalation of water is a very successful method of commiting suicide so infamy and sensationalism aside ... it is very UNLIKELY to fail. That would make it a means and opportunity for a diver who found themselves in such a state of mind.

It is unfortunate, as pointed out in this thread, that post-humus cleanup places rescue personnel at such extreme peril. Here's a question ... if a rescuer dies is it a suicide-homocide?