uncommon tanks

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sledgod

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I have been rummaging around different places and I keep coming up with unusual tanks. A few days ago I picked up 3 yellow 77+ 2250psi Steel tanks (hj409390 3aa2250) and an early agualung 80 aluminum e6498 3000psi (p290399 11/80). Couple of months ago I picked up some steel 83+ tanks. Are the 77+ similar to the new 77's? The physical size and shape is really close on all of the tanks. The empty weights are somewhat different. I really like the 83+. Any info on any of these would be helpful.
 
You may try contacting tha manufacturer (via web( and ask some quetions. About 3 months ago I came across free tank and took it home looked at the stampings and seen it was a Catalina 67. I was a little puzzaled as all the tank charts I have did not show a Catalina 67. So I contacted them and found out that the 67 was dicontinued and replaced with the now 63's . This was do to the large demand for the 63 size . The tank was sold as a us diver . This has been a realy nice tank . It dives real well ,better than my 80 and 100 . and it is light
 
I like the 83+ due to the fact they are the size of the alum 80 but I get to use less weight(yeah). I am still too new of a diver to totally get my buoyancy figured out perfectly yet. It Is just an excuse to dive and get more practice.
 
I'm guessing the 77+ tanks aren't 77 cf but 1977 tanks with a + rating indicating it was OK to fill them to 2475 psi. That's generally what the markings mean. Usually you'll see a first number indicating the month, then what looks like a trademark symbol then a two digit number indicating the year.

Those really aren't that unusual. I dove with a similar yellow 72 earlier today. There's nothing wrong with them though. They're nice and light, hold enough air for a reasonable length dive and have excellent buoyancy characteristics.

I'm not really sure what the 83+ tanks are, but like the 77's, I'm pretty sure that they were made in 1983. That would have been a little late for LP72's. Maybe someone was still making them at that date, but all the ones I've seen were earlier than that.

The good thing about those steel tanks is that so long as you maintain them they should last just about forever, and with quick inspection you can get a darn good idea of whether they're still any good. First take off the boot, then look for rust or bubbled, bulging or rippled paint. If you find any of it scrape it off. If the rust spots are small, shallow or just on the surface, then you should be OK. Next, drain the tank and remove the valve. Peer inside with a small light looking for rust spots. Just like the outside, surface rust isn't a problem, but pits are.

Your aluminum tank probably doesn't have the same value. There were tanks from that era that were made from 6351 alloy and some of them exploded. Because of this, a lot of shops refuse to fill them. There were probably millions of those tanks made and only a few of them exploded, but you're still likely to have problems getting them filled.
 
Thanks elmer fudd. I do know for a fact that the 83+ are really 83+. I confirmed it with one of my lds. The aluminum is on the cleared list because it is a us divers 6498 casting which I also confirmed with the lds before I bought it. I just can not figure out the 3 yellow ones. There is no name on them. If anyone knows how to read the numbers hj409309, let me know. Thanks again
 
All the "HJ" serialed steel 72s I have owned in the distant past were made by Norris industries, and the two I have left were both made in 1978. But they are not "78+" tanks but rather just plain old steel 72s.

I agree that the 83+ tanks are also going to be 3AA steel tanks where the "83" is the year of manufacture and the "+" indicates approval for a 10% overfill. They may or may not be steel 72s as I am not sure when production ceased, but that would have probably been just past the twilight of steel 72 production. Faber however made a very similar sized 2400 psi service pressure tank during that period of time that held 75.8 cu ft at 2640 psi. It was basically a 2400 psi version of the 2250 psi steel 72. If they are steel 72 sized tanks and are stamped "Faber" or "m303", or for that matter have a 2400 psi service pressure, that's what you probably have.

In terms of tank markings, "3AA" refers to the DOT approved 3AA chrome moly steel tank engineering standard and 3AL refers to the DOT approved engineering standard for aluminum tanks. The DOT used to be called the ICC, so early steel tanks (up to about 1966 or 67)may be stamped "ICC" rather than "DOT".

If you see something like DOT 3AA2250 12#78+ It would mean it is a DOT approved tank (DOT)made to the 3AA steel tank standard (3AA) with a 2250 psi service pressure (2250) manufactured and initailly tested in December of 1978 (12#78) and approved for a 10% over fill (+). The "#" will be one of several markings for the approved test facility that did the initial qualification testing of the tank. Subsequent requalifications (hydro tests) will have the same month/date format with the test symbol replaced by a 4 character RIN number in a 2 over 2 format like:
C2
00
denoting in this case "C200".

The E6498 (and SP6498) tanks were one of the special permit/exempt classifications that were lumped into the 3AL classification when it was standardized in 1982. They were supposed to be re-stamped 3AL when they come in for requalification (hydro testing). Sometimes they got skipped or were not taken in for hydro long enough that testers got out of the habit of restamping them.

The other tanks that were rolled into the 3AL classification in July 1982 were SP7042 tanks made by Walter Kidde as well as E8364 and E8422 tanks. A couple others would have been eligible - SP6688 (Norris Industries) and SP6576 (Kaiser Industry) - but those two companies never filled out the paperwork to renew the permits when they expired in 1979 and as a result those tanks are supposed to be condemned at requalification.

E6498 and SP6498 tanks were made by Luxfer from Alcan 6351-T6 alloy and are subject to the requirements for eddy current/ visual plus testing as part of the requalification process. Your LDS is totally wrong in thinking they are "clear" of the inspection requirements that apply to 6351-T6 alloy tanks. The "P" in an early Luxfer serial number indicates "80 cubic feet", but they are actually 77 cu ft at 3000 psi.

As for minor differences in the steel 72s, minor differences in dimension, shoulder, neck and bottom profiles as well as minor differences in weight were common. Steel 72s were made by several companies (PST, Norris Industry, Coyne, Taylor-Warton, etc) and variations occurred from company to company, from year to year and even from lot to lot.

As a general guideline a steel 72 will be more or less like this:

Service pressure: 2250 psi (2475 psi with the 10% overfill)
Height: 25.0"
Diameter: 6.8"
Weight: 29.5"
Buoyancy empty: 3.5 pounds
Buoyancy full: -2.0 pounds
Volume at 2250 psi = 64.7 cu ft
Volume at 2475 psi = 71.2 cu ft

In contrast, the current Worthington LP 77s will have:

Service pressure: 2400 psi (2640 psi with the 10% overfill)
Height: 23.2"
Diameter: 7.25"
Weight: 32.5"
Buoyancy empty: -1.0 pounds
Buoyancy full: -6.8 pounds
Volume at 2400 psi = 70.0 cu ft
Volume at 2640 psi = 77.0 cu ft

-----

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your LDS gave you a lot of bad information and is an idiot. Find another one.
 
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I've been buying up a lot of used tanks myself lately. Here's what I look for in a used tank.

1) Steel. If it's not steel it better be a pony or really unusual, (eg. UDS-1). I don't like the size, weight or buoyancy characteristics of AL80's and I certainly don't like tanks that can't be filled. To me a pre-91 AL80 is as valuable as it's valve.

2) Pressure. When you start buying old tanks you discover they aren't rated to modern pressures. As far as I'm concerned, higher is always better. Some of the old tanks are only rated to 1800 psi. That leaves you with a big tank and not a lot of air.

3) Finish. I like galvanized, paint and vinyl in that order. Galvanized tanks hold up best. Vinyl can trap water and hide damage.

4) Condition. I've had very good luck so far. Out of 11 used tanks I have purchased only one was junk. Even if it's not junk though, it might cost more than you want to spend to put it back in service. A hydro runs me $35. A tumble is $25 and a new burst disc is $10. That's $70 if it needs all three.

5) Rarity or strangeness factor. Cool and weird old tanks have their own appeal. 1/2" valves, R valves and strange doubles or triples are all things that I would pay extra for.

Individual old LP steel tanks of 60's and 70's vintage usually go for between $10 and $80. The latter would be for a galvanized tank in good condition with a current hydro and vis.
 
Thanks elmer fudd. I do know for a fact that the 83+ are really 83+. I confirmed it with one of my lds. The aluminum is on the cleared list because it is a us divers 6498 casting which I also confirmed with the lds before I bought it. I just can not figure out the 3 yellow ones. There is no name on them. If anyone knows how to read the numbers hj409309, let me know. Thanks again

As DA said the hj is Norris Industries, the number is the serial number
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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