Two OOA divers in Boynton Beach last week

[lowtech]

I was professional and pointed out their mistakes and omissions, and how they could improve their safety

vs

I went into Mr. Mom mode and gave them the riot act.

may have been why some of the response were given the way they were.

 

[RogerAGrimes]

I can't remember how the topic came up...me or them or why...but normally I wouldn't bring it up...but I did this time, so something triggered the conversation.

You have some good points in your post, but I'm not sure how reminding new divers, with a topical example, to check their air while diving is "task overloading" them.

I'm not sure how to respond to the post and make it constructive, but I'm going to try.

New divers are all ready task loaded and you want to discuss this topic? Now? Why in the world? All this does is cause them to second guess their training and over think rather than react as they were instructed. A better conversation would have been the incrediable experience they were about to have compared to the muck they trained in.

 

[RogerAGrimes]

Yes, I was too quick with the incorrect colloquialism. I didn't yell or even act overly upset. Let's say I was very concerned, and address the issue right there, and later on in an email when I was sending them video from the dive...that they requested.

vs

may have been why some of the response were given the way they were.

 

[RogerAGrimes]

Well, part of the problem was that captain, even when knowing that they were brand new, didn't cover any scuba basics with them other than "come up with 500psi" and follow me. Then after it happened, he stayed down another 45 minutes. When he did come up, his conversation was so gentle, that I'm not sure they got it. He basically reminded them to come up with air in their tanks. The mate\driver didn't address it at all during the 45 minutes we had alone with them after it happened.

Regarding me covering them practicing how to drop their weights...not only was it for them...but for me. If I have to rescue them, I want to know how their systems work. I have had to rescue people in the past that were "drowning on the surface" and had to fumble while I learned how to drop their weights during the actual incident. Considering that most dead divers did not drop their weights during their emergency and dropping their weights would have probably helped them...it's a skill I don't mind asking people to re-practice. I'll take the potential legal ramifications. Since I'm not a DM or instructor, I'm pretty sure I'm at lower risk than if I was.

I'm kinda on the fence regarding your actions.

The captain is diving with them, it's his boat, so he's assumed responsibility for them.
I'm not sure how I would have reacted to another random diver who just joined the charter having this discussion with me. That's what the crew is there for, seems a bit out of place for you to address all of this beforehand with people you're not even buddying with or responsible for.

This definitely seems out of line to me. It also seems like you could be opening yourself up for liability because you're providing instruction to them, whether you're an instructor or not. They get out there, have a problem, drop their weights, rocket to the surface and embolize and suddenly you're sitting in front of a jury because you encouraged them to practice dropping weights pre dive.

Under the circumstances I think you over reacted. They're not under your care, it's not your place to read them the riot act. If there was no captain and crew, if they were buddying directly with you, or if circumstances were a bit different then I think your reaction might be justified.

It's a tough call. I've intervened with other divers before too, but in my case I was the only one around and the divers were obviously diving beyond their level (OW entering a cave). As you presented it, I can understand your frustration, but I think you went a bit too far with it.

 

[Cave Diver]

Regarding me covering them practicing how to drop their weights...not only was it for them...but for me. If I have to rescue them, I want to know how their systems work.

If you weren't going to be buddied with them, why was this a concern?

I'm all for watching out for other divers when I'm the more experienced person, but by your account you're not a DM and you weren't buddied up with them so I'm a bit confused at your apparent drive to take charge of their safety.

 

[Splitlip]

Well, part of the problem was that captain, even when knowing that they were brand new, didn't cover any scuba basics with them other than "come up with 500psi" and follow me. Then after it happened, he stayed down another 45 minutes. When he did come up, his conversation was so gentle, that I'm not sure they got it. He basically reminded them to come up with air in their tanks. The mate\driver didn't address it at all during the 45 minutes we had alone with them after it happened.

The Captains fault? The divers were certified, no?

 

[knowone]

I was just kicking back in a reclined position
prepping for a dive with my laptop in my lap
wearing a pair of speedos, a little warm here

Anyway, as I was logging off, I almost if my
awareness, were slower, snapped it shut, on
the budgie


So "be careful out there" when prepping, for
a dive

 

[Splitlip]

Gotta love the Aussies. Budgie..that's a little bird right?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

As my dad used to say: "Who died and left you in charge?".

But seriously, if the people who run completely out of air on the surface are not able to grasp the concept that they came very close to having nothing to breath underwater, then screaming at them or even a little chat about the situation is probably not going to do much. stupid is, as stupid does.

On the other hand when I see people do really stupid sheet, I will normally say something ONCE, in a very low key manner. If they think I am a know-it-all-A-hole who can't mind his business, then that is fine, but I can at least live with myself if they get killed or something.

A number of years ago, I saw a guy diving with a very poorly rigged octo and he ran into a solo emergency and couldn't deploy and very nearly died. I bit my tongue 5 times watching him dive for 2 days like that and never said a word because he had done hundreds of solo dives and I wanted to remain low key.

After that incident, I pretty much vowed to "say something" (if it needs to be said) and this will generally pertain to something before a dive, where my input might me applicable.

If I were to be working as a divemaster and the person is my responsibility, then I WILL make a stink if there is something that looks really bad because it is my butt on the line. I've even gone so far as to tell the captain I will refuse to conduct the dive with a particular clown, if he does not drop a bunch of lead off his belt (after I did my best to talk him through it myself).

However, if I were a customer who was not even a divemaster, you can be sure I wouldn't be running people through a weight ditching exercise on the boat unless they requested it.

 

[TSandM]

This reminded me of THIS thread.

Roger, you and Errol are both seeing a pattern of behavior that is going to kill people, and each of you is reacting to it, and neither reaction is being taken in a constructive way by the people who are likely to get into trouble.

The problem is that someone who can run out of gas underwater and laugh about it isn't very educable. Which is why we have Darwin awards . . .

I share your feeling that something needs to be done to help divers learn that they CAN avoid these sorts of problems (and others), and I do my part by promoting diving education that I think does that. I'm probably as annoying, in my arena (forums) as you were on the boat. I'm not sure I would have appreciated your efforts, myself, but I completely understand where they are coming from. At least you are trying to do something, as opposed to people who do nothing.