Two German divers drown at Gran Cenote Kalimba at Tulum

[Big Eyes]

Thank you for your detailed view of things.

I do not think that one saw on the videos a murder .......

It is well known to me that the Mexikan police did not know about cave diving and therefore gave everything into the hands of the cave divers.

Maybe it is a mistake for me to assume German conditions. I know only from acquaintances with the police that such information is treated very confidentially.

I think that one can understand that as a widow, I see things from a totally different perspective and are emotionally different to outsiders.

I am very sorry that I can not believe the report by Izze. But I do not want to comment further here.

I wish all cave divers and divers all the best in this way!

 

[Izze]

Thank you for your detailed view of things.

I do not think that one saw on the videos a murder .......

It is well known to me that the Mexikan police did not know about cave diving and therefore gave everything into the hands of the cave divers.

Maybe it is a mistake for me to assume German conditions. I know only from acquaintances with the police that such information is treated very confidentially.

I think that one can understand that as a widow, I see things from a totally different perspective and are emotionally different to outsiders.

I am very sorry that I can not believe the report by Izze. But I do not want to comment further here.

I wish all cave divers and divers all the best in this way!

I am sorry for your loss. I am however genuinely curious on what you think could have happened instead of what is described in the report.

In the reports and in all the comments I've made I have always stressed that I think that these were two competent divers, that their choices were reasonable and that they planned a dive that was a little bit aggressive but not extreme, a dive that many cave divers could have tried without thinking twice about it. It is the same reason why I defend their choice of going towards Gran Cenote - it was calculated and probably the right thing to do. It was at the very least close enough not to be the cause of the accident.

If you discount the gas planning explanation almost any other possibility outside conspiracy/murder would paint them in a worse light. If the gas reserves had been sufficient any equipment malfunction, navigational error or line changes would have been easily survivable given the depth, the visibility and proximity of emergency exit options. Dealing with either of those would have been easy for an experienced cave diver who had been in the system before.

 

[infieldg]

I'm writing this out of genuine concern so please move rather than delete it?

I'd like to state my wish that should I die diving, I fully endorse investigation of my accident by qualified divers so that other lives may be saved by the lessons learnt, even if it means my loved ones have to accept that I made a mistake, which I probably did because none of us are perfect. It doesn't mean we aren't amazing human beings, it just means we're human.

This is EXTREMELY important to me, it never occurred to me until now that a relative might - with the kindest and sweetest of intentions - actively oppose such an investigation, which would go counter to everything I and I suspect most if not all divers, believe in.

We're in this forum because we value the lessons that come from accidents, lessons passed on by highly qualified divers like @Izze who put so much time into trying to prevent those accidents from recurring.

It's also nice that they drop everything to find us, save us if possible, and get us back to our loved ones - thank you!

RIP guys

 

[FreeFlyFreak]

Thank you for your detailed view of things.

I do not think that one saw on the videos a murder .......

It is well known to me that the Mexikan police did not know about cave diving and therefore gave everything into the hands of the cave divers.

Maybe it is a mistake for me to assume German conditions. I know only from acquaintances with the police that such information is treated very confidentially.

I think that one can understand that as a widow, I see things from a totally different perspective and are emotionally different to outsiders.

I am very sorry that I can not believe the report by Izze. But I do not want to comment further here.

I wish all cave divers and divers all the best in this way!

I understand your pain and frustration it must be very difficult.

Understand that the report is the most likely scenario, with the evidence available.

It is not however the only scenario, but the other scenarios at least that I can envisage involve more speculation, and would provide no evidence.

I hope you can find peace.
Your husband died, as we all do eventually.
Find solace that he died quickly, doing something that he enjoyed.
I would rather that than a slow death by cancer that a friend of mine just suffered through.

 

[Protondecay123]

I, the wife of Diver 1, who was a very accomplished and theoretically and technically perfect full-cave diver, lost his so beloved hobby on his 1130th dive at Cenote HoTul in Mexico after a 25-year dive experience, I would like to comment here on the comment I disrespectful:
We, the relatives of the deceased have allowed the Foreign Office on 17.11.2018 that the dive computers and video material may be evaluated. We have done this with the utmost confidence in the Mexican police, that sensitive, responsible and confidential dealings with these personal data. On the day after the salvage, there was no approval on our part to evaluate the data! We also allowed the diving quilt to be examined. If we had known that it was not the police, but cave divers who carried everything out, who made this responsible and confidential task, we would never have given our consent!
The fact that such a report is published here on the basis of the confidential data, I find absolutely disrespectful. I am speechless and powerless about this way of dealing with the deaths of two people.

The report concludes from a speculation that the gas planning mistake lies in the last resort: death was caused by a diver error, more to the point of not complying with proper gas planning .... ..........
This is proclaimed here in public of the diving world and the world!

Video files disappear exactly in the area where the cause of the accident must have come. The original SD card disappears to the dive. What is written here for these videos between the 40th and the 81st minute can never be proven again!
The video recordings are interpreted and introduced in such a way that everything fits into the picture, which should be seen.
There are entries in the Weapon (emergency book of my husband), which are partly introduced here. The interpreted as best and it will be omitted the entries that just do not fit into the picture ........

I can not express my indignation and disappointment.

My dearest sympathy for these things transpiring without your knowledge or consent. We all have personal ways to grieve for, and honor those we love that have deceased. I'm sorry that yours was violated. I'm sure that if your personal feelings in this regard were known to those involved, this investigation would not have occurred in this fashion. My profound and deepest sympathy for your loss and may you one day find peace with this.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

I am back in Mexico staying in Tulum. Asked about Grand and Kalimba. They are both closed to all cave divers, and all cave divers with a guide. Closed because of this accident.

 

[wgw04024]

They've been closed since the accident?

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

That’s what I was told

 

[kafkaland]

I am back in Mexico staying in Tulum. Asked about Grand and Kalimba. They are both closed to all cave divers, and all cave divers with a guide. Closed because of this accident.

Very sad. I really enjoyed diving that area, and would have liked to come back for more.