As String has already said it is not good to speculate. Please keep the guesses to yourselves until any facts emerge.
Two Divers Die In Same Incident
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lamont
Contributor
String:
i wouldn't think that you'd have two DCI cases from a 24m dive or anything like that... i may be biased from my rescue course last weekend, but could this be a case of a rescuer becoming a fatality?
pufferfish
Contributor
Looks like there is something peculiar to Scapa Flow
From DAN Diving Fatalities 2004
Group................DCI Incidence per 10,000 dives
Liveaboard............................0.0
Shore/Day Boat......................3.0
Scapa Flow............................10.7
I have heard cold water, deep, and current as reasons
What about other factors in general about Scapa Flow?
-fitness or experience of divers in this area?
-multiple fill stations or only one available in the area?
-warm water tourist divers coming up to Scapa Flow and not familiar with cold water gear?
From DAN Diving Fatalities 2004
Group................DCI Incidence per 10,000 dives
Liveaboard............................0.0
Shore/Day Boat......................3.0
Scapa Flow............................10.7
I have heard cold water, deep, and current as reasons
What about other factors in general about Scapa Flow?
-fitness or experience of divers in this area?
-multiple fill stations or only one available in the area?
-warm water tourist divers coming up to Scapa Flow and not familiar with cold water gear?
Ontario Diver
Guest
pufferfish:
Scapa Flow is a challanging and difficult dive. Perhaps the UK divers can confirm or deny, but as I understand it the area is deep, cold, dark, and with moderate to strong currents. I believe that there is a fair bit of technical and trimix instruction that takes place there. Add to that mix the thrill on diving on some truely awesome wrecks .....
Still, diving there is one of my dreams.
Yes scapa is cold (northern waters), dark, and deep- some wrecks are very deep in there.
Add that to the fact Scapa is generally visited as part of a multi day diving trip or liveaboard due to its remote location and you can find yourself doing multiple 30m+ dives in a day. In short, its gruelling.
(note my comment is not meant to judge what happened in this case, just stating something abour scapa!)
Add that to the fact Scapa is generally visited as part of a multi day diving trip or liveaboard due to its remote location and you can find yourself doing multiple 30m+ dives in a day. In short, its gruelling.
(note my comment is not meant to judge what happened in this case, just stating something abour scapa!)
Hoppy
Guest
String:
Just seen this from a friend on another board, It's been a bad bad year for UK diver deaths.
Prayers go to family and friends. (I'm getting tired of typing that this year).
Best to wait till we find out what happened I suppose.
There by the grace of (whichever god you follow) go we.
Yours depressed tonight
Hoppy
PS Just put in the Ferrets section before I saw it here
[QUOTE=String]Yes scapa is cold (northern waters), dark, and deep- some wrecks are very deep in there.
Add that to the fact Scapa is generally visited as part of a multi day diving trip or liveaboard due to its remote location and you can find yourself doing multiple 30m+ dives in a day. In short, its gruelling.
(note my comment is not meant to judge what happened in this case, just stating something abour scapa!)[/QUOTE]
Did Scapa in Oct. '95 on the same boat, Karin, skippered by John Thornton. A very capable operator IMO.
Went down on the Karlsruhe twice, both 28m/40mins, with safety stops only needed.
Yes, the waters in Scapa are cooold! As an experienced coldwater diver, Scapa's waters in October - 8 degs. Celsius - was the most bitter cold water I have ever seen.
Have been to the Arctic in -1 to + 4 degs. of water, but that bitter feeling was not there.
Karin's way of dropping divers was to go upcurrent of the shotline, drop divers, who had to grab the distance line on the surface and pull themselves to the shot. It worked well, providing you gave yourself a minute or two at the shot to stabilise your breathing before descending.
Depth? We went below 40m only once that week. Two dives a day were typical. Not intensive compared to other liveaboards.
Once at the bottom one used the wreck as shelter from the current, it is big enough to dive behind!
All in all, good diving but not for novices.
Don't know any details of this tragedy. Condolences must go to their families.
Hope the picture of the environment there is clearer from the above post. It's no more dangerous than many other hi-energy sites I've seen, but respect has to be shown.
My .02c
Seadeuce
Add that to the fact Scapa is generally visited as part of a multi day diving trip or liveaboard due to its remote location and you can find yourself doing multiple 30m+ dives in a day. In short, its gruelling.
(note my comment is not meant to judge what happened in this case, just stating something abour scapa!)[/QUOTE]
Did Scapa in Oct. '95 on the same boat, Karin, skippered by John Thornton. A very capable operator IMO.
Went down on the Karlsruhe twice, both 28m/40mins, with safety stops only needed.
Yes, the waters in Scapa are cooold! As an experienced coldwater diver, Scapa's waters in October - 8 degs. Celsius - was the most bitter cold water I have ever seen.
Have been to the Arctic in -1 to + 4 degs. of water, but that bitter feeling was not there.
Karin's way of dropping divers was to go upcurrent of the shotline, drop divers, who had to grab the distance line on the surface and pull themselves to the shot. It worked well, providing you gave yourself a minute or two at the shot to stabilise your breathing before descending.
Depth? We went below 40m only once that week. Two dives a day were typical. Not intensive compared to other liveaboards.
Once at the bottom one used the wreck as shelter from the current, it is big enough to dive behind!
All in all, good diving but not for novices.
Don't know any details of this tragedy. Condolences must go to their families.
Hope the picture of the environment there is clearer from the above post. It's no more dangerous than many other hi-energy sites I've seen, but respect has to be shown.
My .02c
Seadeuce
lakesdiver
Contributor
I agree. Scapa is cold, dark, and deep. Diving here in the Great Lakes was great prep. We heard stories from them about folks coming from the US who had no real cold water experience, let alone live-boat practice. That all came out AFTER they'd watched how we dove for two days.
As Seadeuce said, "Good diving but NOT for novices." And I would add not for experienced divers who are drysuit novices.
As Seadeuce said, "Good diving but NOT for novices." And I would add not for experienced divers who are drysuit novices.
I don't know any of the facts of this case and won't make any comment about it, other than to express my own condolences over this tragedy. I've dived the Karlsruhe and don't remember anything intrinsically difficult about it, but of course Scapa is serious diving, dramatically more demanding than somewhere like Truk.
One general comment on British diving (I am a Brit and trained with BSAC, though nowadays I'm mostly in warmer waters). That is that I never cease to be amazed how much beer most Brit divers put away until the early hours, and then do demanding dives only a few hours later. I haven't seen this in other places, and can't believe it's healthy. I emphasise, I have no idea whether this was a factor in the current tragedy - it's a general observation.
One general comment on British diving (I am a Brit and trained with BSAC, though nowadays I'm mostly in warmer waters). That is that I never cease to be amazed how much beer most Brit divers put away until the early hours, and then do demanding dives only a few hours later. I haven't seen this in other places, and can't believe it's healthy. I emphasise, I have no idea whether this was a factor in the current tragedy - it's a general observation.
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