funrecdiver
Contributor
First of all, this review (my observations) of a Koh Tao dive factory, or my experience there, is only based on one dive center. It certainly is not written to imply other, any or all dive centers on Koh Tao are like this. I cannot be the judge of that. Unfortunately, this experience has demotivated by interest in diving as a recreational sport (hopefully only temporarily).
Second, it is really not my place to trouble any dive center about my experience in their dive center, as my observation is that a dive enter can have a very successful business model that works well for them, and it may simply not match my more leisurely "take it easy", "do what I want" life style, so there are no worries at all. This is only my experience from someone who dives for fun, not for profit.
Having said that, the resort I dived with in Koh Tao was a very nice place and I did meet many very nice people there and was treated well by the management and owner. I have already provided them private feedback and their request, which they have thanked me for. I will not identify the dive center (in public) and have done my best to omit information that would lead anyone to identify the center.
Here was my observations and feedback of what "did not work for me" during my recent trip:
(1) I thought the instructor I worked with (assisted) was a very interesting (and very experienced) person and great to work with; but I felt like he was under a lot of pressure to sell, especially the advanced (AOW) course to OW students. The students in the class also mentioned this to me, that they felt a lot of repeated pressure to do the AOW class.
In fact, the instructor, repeatedly told the students during their class (and theory sessions) they could not dive without a DM or an instructor with a OW cert if they did not do the advanced class. I heard this many times and there was no communication issue or miscommunication. What the instructor told the students was not PADI standard (confirmed with PADI). The PADI OW standard is that when an instructor certifies a student as OW, they have been certified fit-to-dive with another OW of the same level (or higher) as a buddy (to 18 meters).
IMHO, if an instructor believes students are not qualified or fit to dive with another OW certified diver, then they should not certify them OW because that is the OW spec (I checked this with two other instructors I know and with PADI, without mentioning the center or instructors name; it is not my wish to cause stress or harm to anyone, only to report my general experience). I really was disappointed to see instructors selling AOW so hard that they felt compelled to misrepresent the OW standard to a class of 7 or 8 students. This seems to reflect a general overall "sell sell sell" atmosphere that takes the fun from diving from most divers I spoke with, including me.
As for me, every school I have ever dived with emphasizes fun dives before more classes and I agree with this (it is the route I did, and I logged my current dives under various conditions (high strong currents, rough seas etc) before I did the Rescue class and think it is wise for students to dive and not just collect cert cards, as others have advised me, thank you ).
(2) My dive gear, which was top quality (professional quality), was abused by the dive resorts staff and I was insulted and ill treated by a lower level staff (illegal immigrant from a neighboring country) guy who runs their gear room. Basically, since their business model is "go go go" with many tourists/people with no gear, they are not really set up, it seems, for people who actually care about their gear, their regs, etc. My dive bag was broken (twice) loading from the boat-taxis to the main boat. Also, part of my BCD was also damaged. This has never happened at any resort or center I have dived with before.
Both on and off the boat, gear was treated so badly that, if you are like me and actually own and love your gear, then the logistical model of taking a small boat from the beach to a larger boat moored in deeper water does not work well. It is also tiring and contributes (in some small way) to dive fatigue/stress to have to work so hard just to get on the dive boat in rough seas. It is not relaxing, zen, or otherwise very fun to be in "go go go" "hurry hurry hurry" mode all of the time, from shore, to dive boat, to dives/SIs and back. In other words, it was not my concept of scuba diving (others may like this style, but not me). Scuba diving, for me, is not about jogging nor mountain climbing. It is about relaxing, slow breathing, buoyancy control and safety first. Nice gear and taking care of it is a core component of my diving.
(3) Many of the local staff (from a neighboring country) who work at this KT resort were rude and abusive. For example, after my dive bag was damaged (twice), I tried to use an OK-ish student bag from the public gear room (I am sure the owner did not mind, they wanted me to dive there). The local staff guy there basically told me to "f*** off" (sorry to repeat such language), and told me that only "special people" could use a decent student gear bag. After that, I basically thought to myself, "Wow! I am in the wrong place because I am not going to be abused or insulted by the dive factory support staff, under any condition, and especially boat boys and other similar staff".
(4) After experiencing all this (above) and more (which I don't want overload this post with), and seeing the results of this style of "zero to hero" factory program, I felt that the divers were not getting proper training; but mostly collecting certs between parties. After all, (as mentioned earlier) the instructor even told them they were not fit to dive without a DM or instructor with an OW cert. Also, in another example, one new DMT with only 20 dives (hard to believe) was adamant we must put all the students gear in their bags for them in the morning. I told her that students need to select, try and pack their own gear, for safety and comfort reasons, as she was in "go go go" mode.
Then, as easily predicted, an OW student got in the water and her fins hurt her feet badly, all because a 20-dive DMT put rushing to get packed above student comfort and safety. Ironically, it rained hard that morning and we were delayed nearly an hour to embark on the day's diving, so the 20-dive DMT put students safety and comfort at risk for nothing. This is what happens, IMHO, when a center has a "zero-to-hero" program with inexperienced people who have 20 dives trying to be "the hero". "Rush, rush, rush, go, go, go," is not more important than student safety and comfort, at least in my view. I was disheartened in such (risky to OW students) behavior from a 20 dive DMT who refused to listen when I asked her to slow down and keep the students involved in their own gear. Other students had similar gear issues (after getting on the boat) because of this "rush rush rush" mode. Also, not surprisingly, many student regulators and low pressure inflator hoses steadily leaked as well as their first stages. This caused many students to worry, naturally. I had never seen such leaky hoses and regulators, anywhere.
Said another way, everything above seems to fall into the broad category of a "go go go" "sell sell sell" "zero to hero" rushing around business model. While that might be great financially and from a business perspective, it is not the reason many of us, or at least "funrecdiver", go scuba diving. It has been a bit demotivating to dive after this experience, frankly speaking. I did not know that much PADI class sales pressure existed in the world! (Now my eyes have been opened!!) When I dive, we take time, check out all gear, check for safety issues, enjoy gear almost as much as the dive; and we relax to minimize stress and conserve air, enjoy a nice safe SI between dives, which are all core diving themes, or so I was taught. This KT center's business model was as a "PADI cert factory" which creates stress, shorter dive time limits, broken and abused gear, unhappy students who feel pressured to take more classes (instead of simply having fun), and instructors who feel compelled to misrepresent PADI standards to sell, sell, sell more courses.
With all due respect to the financial success of this center, I don't see how a "funrecdiver" who loves to dive, only the fun of it, and has no ambition to ever make 1 baht/penny/pence from diving, can actually benefit from this type of high-pressure dive center, since the core is "sell sell sell" and "go go go" and "break crush smash"..... However, I did learn many things, but mostly it is how to turn the fantastic sport of diving into a stressful money-making dive-factory. That is not my view of diving. But I can see how it works for some people. The shorter than normal dive limit (40 minutes) was unheard of for me (normally it has been 60 minutes or 50 bar, except at one center where it is 50 bar, no time limits). My hand-picked, well loved and maintained dive gear has never been damaged before (it is not fun to have your gear smashed about). I have never been rushed, pushed, ran-over, or talked ill to by the (illegal immigrant, no work permit) support staff, ever, except at this dive factory. I have never seen an instructor misrepresent a PADI standard to sell an OW student an AOW course. This, in itself, has deflated by dive balloon, so to speak.
I did admire this particular dive resort for being such a successful dive-factory "full moon party circuit" diving business. I liked the owners, management and many people there. But regarding the reason I actually dive, I got the feeling this center had "lost the dive ethic" and lost the "moral high ground" due to the high-pressure "sell another dive cert/class" business model. Of course, money does that to people, as we all know. It's just not for me and I did not even know a dive center like this existed before. I may go back to playing golf for a while!
To their good credit, the management (owner) was very fair with me when I checked out; and I did not want to trouble them with these issues in the least, so they encouraged me to share my concerns privately, which I did a few days ago. I also mentioned my perspective directly (the night before checking out) with one of the independent instructors there (a great guy who hails from some of the save diving and dive centers) and he was the one who suggested I share my perception with the owners, which I have reluctantly done, privately.
I absolutely appreciated the kindness the owner, the most senior course directors and many others provided; and I simply have written this experience off as a "dive objective mismatch". (I have been careful not to provide direct or indirect information that would identify the dive resort in this review/trip report). I am sure for many others, especially those bouncing around doing full moon parties and calling grandma on Skype telling them they are hunting for a whale shark, the dive-factory model is great for many of them.
On the other hand, no student-customer I spoke with appreciated the constant sales pressure during their OW class; and in fact, it turned them off. However, they did not care so much (so they told me), as they had a good time at the full moon party at the other islands, they got their OW cert card, had some fun and were off to their next beach party. Most had not heard of Chiang Mai or Pattaya (most have never been to Bangkok) and this was their first time to Thailand. For them, they were having the time of their life.
I am sure I would have loved this center if I was their age and was going for my first OW class in between beach parties. It was simply a mismatch in experience and expectations from a dive center, in my case. Unfortunately, it may take some time to get back into the diving mood. I'm going to play golf this week for the first time in 4 months!
Safe Diving!
Second, it is really not my place to trouble any dive center about my experience in their dive center, as my observation is that a dive enter can have a very successful business model that works well for them, and it may simply not match my more leisurely "take it easy", "do what I want" life style, so there are no worries at all. This is only my experience from someone who dives for fun, not for profit.
Having said that, the resort I dived with in Koh Tao was a very nice place and I did meet many very nice people there and was treated well by the management and owner. I have already provided them private feedback and their request, which they have thanked me for. I will not identify the dive center (in public) and have done my best to omit information that would lead anyone to identify the center.
Here was my observations and feedback of what "did not work for me" during my recent trip:
(1) I thought the instructor I worked with (assisted) was a very interesting (and very experienced) person and great to work with; but I felt like he was under a lot of pressure to sell, especially the advanced (AOW) course to OW students. The students in the class also mentioned this to me, that they felt a lot of repeated pressure to do the AOW class.
In fact, the instructor, repeatedly told the students during their class (and theory sessions) they could not dive without a DM or an instructor with a OW cert if they did not do the advanced class. I heard this many times and there was no communication issue or miscommunication. What the instructor told the students was not PADI standard (confirmed with PADI). The PADI OW standard is that when an instructor certifies a student as OW, they have been certified fit-to-dive with another OW of the same level (or higher) as a buddy (to 18 meters).
IMHO, if an instructor believes students are not qualified or fit to dive with another OW certified diver, then they should not certify them OW because that is the OW spec (I checked this with two other instructors I know and with PADI, without mentioning the center or instructors name; it is not my wish to cause stress or harm to anyone, only to report my general experience). I really was disappointed to see instructors selling AOW so hard that they felt compelled to misrepresent the OW standard to a class of 7 or 8 students. This seems to reflect a general overall "sell sell sell" atmosphere that takes the fun from diving from most divers I spoke with, including me.
As for me, every school I have ever dived with emphasizes fun dives before more classes and I agree with this (it is the route I did, and I logged my current dives under various conditions (high strong currents, rough seas etc) before I did the Rescue class and think it is wise for students to dive and not just collect cert cards, as others have advised me, thank you ).
(2) My dive gear, which was top quality (professional quality), was abused by the dive resorts staff and I was insulted and ill treated by a lower level staff (illegal immigrant from a neighboring country) guy who runs their gear room. Basically, since their business model is "go go go" with many tourists/people with no gear, they are not really set up, it seems, for people who actually care about their gear, their regs, etc. My dive bag was broken (twice) loading from the boat-taxis to the main boat. Also, part of my BCD was also damaged. This has never happened at any resort or center I have dived with before.
Both on and off the boat, gear was treated so badly that, if you are like me and actually own and love your gear, then the logistical model of taking a small boat from the beach to a larger boat moored in deeper water does not work well. It is also tiring and contributes (in some small way) to dive fatigue/stress to have to work so hard just to get on the dive boat in rough seas. It is not relaxing, zen, or otherwise very fun to be in "go go go" "hurry hurry hurry" mode all of the time, from shore, to dive boat, to dives/SIs and back. In other words, it was not my concept of scuba diving (others may like this style, but not me). Scuba diving, for me, is not about jogging nor mountain climbing. It is about relaxing, slow breathing, buoyancy control and safety first. Nice gear and taking care of it is a core component of my diving.
(3) Many of the local staff (from a neighboring country) who work at this KT resort were rude and abusive. For example, after my dive bag was damaged (twice), I tried to use an OK-ish student bag from the public gear room (I am sure the owner did not mind, they wanted me to dive there). The local staff guy there basically told me to "f*** off" (sorry to repeat such language), and told me that only "special people" could use a decent student gear bag. After that, I basically thought to myself, "Wow! I am in the wrong place because I am not going to be abused or insulted by the dive factory support staff, under any condition, and especially boat boys and other similar staff".
(4) After experiencing all this (above) and more (which I don't want overload this post with), and seeing the results of this style of "zero to hero" factory program, I felt that the divers were not getting proper training; but mostly collecting certs between parties. After all, (as mentioned earlier) the instructor even told them they were not fit to dive without a DM or instructor with an OW cert. Also, in another example, one new DMT with only 20 dives (hard to believe) was adamant we must put all the students gear in their bags for them in the morning. I told her that students need to select, try and pack their own gear, for safety and comfort reasons, as she was in "go go go" mode.
Then, as easily predicted, an OW student got in the water and her fins hurt her feet badly, all because a 20-dive DMT put rushing to get packed above student comfort and safety. Ironically, it rained hard that morning and we were delayed nearly an hour to embark on the day's diving, so the 20-dive DMT put students safety and comfort at risk for nothing. This is what happens, IMHO, when a center has a "zero-to-hero" program with inexperienced people who have 20 dives trying to be "the hero". "Rush, rush, rush, go, go, go," is not more important than student safety and comfort, at least in my view. I was disheartened in such (risky to OW students) behavior from a 20 dive DMT who refused to listen when I asked her to slow down and keep the students involved in their own gear. Other students had similar gear issues (after getting on the boat) because of this "rush rush rush" mode. Also, not surprisingly, many student regulators and low pressure inflator hoses steadily leaked as well as their first stages. This caused many students to worry, naturally. I had never seen such leaky hoses and regulators, anywhere.
Said another way, everything above seems to fall into the broad category of a "go go go" "sell sell sell" "zero to hero" rushing around business model. While that might be great financially and from a business perspective, it is not the reason many of us, or at least "funrecdiver", go scuba diving. It has been a bit demotivating to dive after this experience, frankly speaking. I did not know that much PADI class sales pressure existed in the world! (Now my eyes have been opened!!) When I dive, we take time, check out all gear, check for safety issues, enjoy gear almost as much as the dive; and we relax to minimize stress and conserve air, enjoy a nice safe SI between dives, which are all core diving themes, or so I was taught. This KT center's business model was as a "PADI cert factory" which creates stress, shorter dive time limits, broken and abused gear, unhappy students who feel pressured to take more classes (instead of simply having fun), and instructors who feel compelled to misrepresent PADI standards to sell, sell, sell more courses.
With all due respect to the financial success of this center, I don't see how a "funrecdiver" who loves to dive, only the fun of it, and has no ambition to ever make 1 baht/penny/pence from diving, can actually benefit from this type of high-pressure dive center, since the core is "sell sell sell" and "go go go" and "break crush smash"..... However, I did learn many things, but mostly it is how to turn the fantastic sport of diving into a stressful money-making dive-factory. That is not my view of diving. But I can see how it works for some people. The shorter than normal dive limit (40 minutes) was unheard of for me (normally it has been 60 minutes or 50 bar, except at one center where it is 50 bar, no time limits). My hand-picked, well loved and maintained dive gear has never been damaged before (it is not fun to have your gear smashed about). I have never been rushed, pushed, ran-over, or talked ill to by the (illegal immigrant, no work permit) support staff, ever, except at this dive factory. I have never seen an instructor misrepresent a PADI standard to sell an OW student an AOW course. This, in itself, has deflated by dive balloon, so to speak.
I did admire this particular dive resort for being such a successful dive-factory "full moon party circuit" diving business. I liked the owners, management and many people there. But regarding the reason I actually dive, I got the feeling this center had "lost the dive ethic" and lost the "moral high ground" due to the high-pressure "sell another dive cert/class" business model. Of course, money does that to people, as we all know. It's just not for me and I did not even know a dive center like this existed before. I may go back to playing golf for a while!
To their good credit, the management (owner) was very fair with me when I checked out; and I did not want to trouble them with these issues in the least, so they encouraged me to share my concerns privately, which I did a few days ago. I also mentioned my perspective directly (the night before checking out) with one of the independent instructors there (a great guy who hails from some of the save diving and dive centers) and he was the one who suggested I share my perception with the owners, which I have reluctantly done, privately.
I absolutely appreciated the kindness the owner, the most senior course directors and many others provided; and I simply have written this experience off as a "dive objective mismatch". (I have been careful not to provide direct or indirect information that would identify the dive resort in this review/trip report). I am sure for many others, especially those bouncing around doing full moon parties and calling grandma on Skype telling them they are hunting for a whale shark, the dive-factory model is great for many of them.
On the other hand, no student-customer I spoke with appreciated the constant sales pressure during their OW class; and in fact, it turned them off. However, they did not care so much (so they told me), as they had a good time at the full moon party at the other islands, they got their OW cert card, had some fun and were off to their next beach party. Most had not heard of Chiang Mai or Pattaya (most have never been to Bangkok) and this was their first time to Thailand. For them, they were having the time of their life.
I am sure I would have loved this center if I was their age and was going for my first OW class in between beach parties. It was simply a mismatch in experience and expectations from a dive center, in my case. Unfortunately, it may take some time to get back into the diving mood. I'm going to play golf this week for the first time in 4 months!
Safe Diving!
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