Trim/Hovering on side

[wdeutsch]

I've been doing some skillz-n-drillz dives recently, to just work on things I want dialed when I next get to go someplace with pretty fish and visibility beyond 6 feet. I'm doing pretty well at trimming out and hovering when in a standard horizontal position, though I'm probably not yet at a GUE/Fundies level. But, I'm getting closer!

The last couple of dives, I started seeing if I could hover in other orientations. Some worked well, but trying to be horizontal on my side was an utter disaster. I had serious issues with getting rolled onto my back, and minor issues with becoming suddenly foot-heavy.

The foot-heavy issue is probably not surprising, as that's an issue I've had to deal with when horizontal. I can compensate for that when flat by either being in frog kick position or tensing my lower back. But, neither seems viable when on my side.

So, the question: What tips/techniques are there to help one hover on their side, or is that not really feasible?

My equipment is a stainless BP (6#), 30L wing, AL80, balanced rig, with all necessary weight for a balanced rig being long thin plates that run along the upper 2/3 of the BP (shoulders to kidneys), mounted between the BP and the wing. I could move some of the weight over onto the shoulder straps on my chest side if taht would help with roll, but I kinda like keeping that clear of clutter.

Any thoughts or tips to try would be much appreciated.

 

[David Novo]

IMHO you should focus more on trim and holding a specific depth than "hovering on your side".

If I need to see something on the left, I'll rotate my head to that side, not the whole body.

 

[happy-diver]

Willing yourself places comes later but with this sport you have to physically put yourself there

And keep yourself there it ain't easy physics disagrees with it, easier for stronger people

I am actually waving at the guy coming at me with a huge spaceship camera thing scary


Why don't you go diving instead mate!

 

[FreqFlier]

I had serious issues with getting rolled onto my back

That's the definition of improper weight distribution - move some weight to the front, either on the shoulder straps or belt.

minor issues with becoming suddenly foot-heavy

Reposition some weights or/and move your tank a bit up (position your tank strap a tad lower).

I agree with most that "hovering on your side" should not be your main worries at this stage of your diving experience. But ideally you should be able to achieve "hovering" or "being suspended" in any position period, whether it's facing up, down, upside down etc. Drysuit makes it trickier to achieve that though.

This thread may be of help too:

Thread 'Perfecting Trim'

Jan 18, 2025

Hi yall, Ive recently gotten a new BC since last year June. Its seen about 20+ dives so far and Ive found I need some incredibly strange weight placement with 2 at the top camband and one just below my tank at my back.

Recently, Ive taken a huge liking for frog kick and been trying it out with my friend's eddy fins (I was told its neutral buoyant). In the attached video, this is a situation of my current trim. I feel the trim and frog kick form is okayish but i feel abit head heavy as when I tried back fin, I end up going back and upwards so im unsure if the trim is off or because I just...

• llTritaTutto
• Replies: 17
• Forum: Basic Scuba

 

[wdeutsch]

IMHO you should focus more on trim and holding a specific depth than "hovering on your side".

If I need to see something on the left, I'll rotate my head to that side, not the whole body.

Oh, I am spending considerable time working on that (and other basics), and it's going well. I can hover just off a silty bottom, maintain position/trim, and not stir up the junk. I can control my depth and navigate by compass when I cannot see the surface, bottom, or any landmarks except a snowstorm of algae. I can maintain depth while moderately task loaded, such as when futzing with and launching a DSMB. So, the basics are coming along nicely.

I've also learned in my other activities that adding in advanced or "party trick" skill practice can have huge benefits on the basics - beyond just breaking up the boredom of repetitive drills. When mountain unicycling, I have no need to be able to trace a 5 point star with my wheel, but, boy-howdy did my sharp turns around rocks get better when I started playing with that.

So, I realize that I probably don't need to spend a lot of time hovering on my side when doing casual tropical diving. Also, if I really have good balance and trim skills, I probably should be able to, no?

I'll move some weights to the front side of my body on the next skills dive and see how that helps. If there are body position adjustments or muscle group motions I can make that would help, I'm all ears there too!

 

[grantmac]

Wetsuit I assume?

 

[RobPNW]

I would think, in theory, if your head to toe weight distribution was good in a normal horizontal position, it would also be good on your side. Maybe if it "feels" good in the normal horizontal position, you have actually learned to unconsciously use fin movement to keep your feet up, and that same fin movement isn't happening on your side. But it may also have to do with your legs being extended or not in each case? Most people that do frog kicking tend to have the bent knee position when in the normal horizontal position, anywhere from like 45-90 degrees. But when I see people on the side, they tend to have their legs extended, which changes the whole lower body weight fulcrum.

 

[rsingler]

What bcd? Jacket or wing?
Same as with standard hover, it's a function of Center of Mass (as in, negatively buoyant) vs Center of Buoyancy (my terminology may be incorrect).

Just back from Roatan, and the numerous wall dives were made far more pleasurable by being able to occasionally kick along while rotated to face the wall while looking for critters.

Inherently, it's not rotationally stable with a full AL80. Too much weight behind you, with neoprene in front. And with steel, forget it.
Same with jacket bcd: too much flotation in front, plus neoprene, and weights behind you, in the lateral position.

But at 1/2-2/3 tank, with weights on the cam bands tucked in really tight against the wing, it's not wildly out of balance.

Just visualize areas of pos vs neg buoyancy, and move what you can.
I've been less satisfied with putting a pound or two in front using a wing, but YMMV.

 

[wdeutsch]

Wetsuit I assume?

7mm wetsuit w/hood. BPW with steel plate.

 

[Subcooled]

I do not dive with doubles, but let me make some wild guesses based on physics.

trying to be horizontal on my side was an utter disaster. I had serious issues with getting rolled onto my back, and minor issues with becoming suddenly foot-heavy.

About rotation:

Let's take this simplified model:

• a submerged diver (starting in horizontal trim)
• steel plate on the back
• one buoyant bladder on each side of the plate (simplification)
• one steel weight on top of everything (the cylinders)
• neutral buoyancy

Now rotate this setup on its side. The steel weight (cylinders) will cause torque and try to rotate the setup upside down to lower the center or mass.

One bladder is now below the weight: it exerts an upward force at first, countering the weight’s torque.
The other bladder is above the weight: it pulls upward, but its torque is less effective because it’s closer to the diver’s centerline.
This offset of center of buoyancy and center of mass leaves a residual torque that will rotate the diver.
Different phases of rotation (<90 deg, =90 deg, >90 deg) might need to be discussed separately.
It all depends on how the bladder(s) act in each stage.

The diver slowly rolls toward a stable orientation where the center of mass is below the center of buoyancy. You might try to counteract this roll with hands and legs. Would it work?

Simplified: A wing may keep you neutrally buoyant, but it is not a counterweight.

(Diving on your side is simple if you sidemount the cylinders. One would be above you, one below. No torque there. Unless, of course, you inflate a huge bladder on you back.)

About dropping feet:

Your buoyancy will change between postive and negative as you breathe. Water resistance will dampen this motion a bit. When on your side, water resistance might have a lesser effect. This might tilt you. This is just a guess.

The foot-heavy issue is probably not surprising, as that's an issue I've had to deal with when horizontal. I can compensate for that when flat by either being in frog kick position or tensing my lower back. But, neither seems viable when on my side.

So, you were tensing you lower back? An arced back is good for trim, both in diving and in surface swimming. And when sideways, you won't do the same for your side?