To DM or not to DM...

[Divesherpa]

How's this for an idea: learn how to dive before you worry about any of the other stuff. The PADI standard of 60 dives is a minimum. A DM with only 60-100 dives will be worthless on any boat or helping with any classes. The DM would only be there to carry gear. Why? The DM doesn't have enough experience to be able to answer the questions and thoroughly explain why certain ideas will and will not work.

When I finished DM (long process), I decided to do the OW instructor course. When I get to the operation where I'm doing the instructor course, I meet a newly minted DM with 62 dives. He was in the instructor course. Every day he would go to a lake (close to the ocean) and spend 2 30minute dives alone in the lake. The thinking was that the underwater time spent was accelerating the day when he could teach. This was the most ludicrous thing that I had witnessed in diving to that point.

The minimum dive quotas are not there just for the sake of dive experience (because @60 dives, you really don't know very much about diving). They constitute a certain amount of diving with other people, seeing gear break, seeing how it is repaired, seeing how people react in certain DIVING situations, etc...

So, in closing, my advice is simple: dive, dive, dive. Once you have a few dives in (100+) and understand more about the culture of diving, you will be able to understand what you want and need to do instead of posting a question about the subject on a discussion board.

 

[CompuDude]

(sorry, I should have specified my opinion about Masterdiver pertains only to PADI. I have heard the NAUI coursework is more rigorous. My OW NAUI, years ago was also.)

Yes, I fully agree the PADI Master Diver seems to be something of a joke. Unless I'm mistaken, you get 50 dives and 5 specialties, and it's pretty much an automatic card with no other real training? That's one reason why I was considering DM as an alternative cert that would carry more real learning, and some actual weight. Other cert agency courses might carry more weight still, but again, I'm not really in this for a career, so I think the PADI DM course might suffice for my needs.

 

[CompuDude]

How's this for an idea: learn how to dive before you worry about any of the other stuff. The PADI standard of 60 dives is a minimum. A DM with only 60-100 dives will be worthless on any boat or helping with any classes. The DM would only be there to carry gear. Why? The DM doesn't have enough experience to be able to answer the questions and thoroughly explain why certain ideas will and will not work.

When I finished DM (long process), I decided to do the OW instructor course. When I get to the operation where I'm doing the instructor course, I meet a newly minted DM with 62 dives. He was in the instructor course. Every day he would go to a lake (close to the ocean) and spend 2 30minute dives alone in the lake. The thinking was that the underwater time spent was accelerating the day when he could teach. This was the most ludicrous thing that I had witnessed in diving to that point.

The minimum dive quotas are not there just for the sake of dive experience (because @60 dives, you really don't know very much about diving). They constitute a certain amount of diving with other people, seeing gear break, seeing how it is repaired, seeing how people react in certain DIVING situations, etc...

So, in closing, my advice is simple: dive, dive, dive. Once you have a few dives in (100+) and understand more about the culture of diving, you will be able to understand what you want and need to do instead of posting a question about the subject on a discussion board.

I find your assumptions about me both inaccurate and insulting, and your example ludicrous, when applied to my circumstances. And discussion boards are designed for this very thing: discussion. You would think someone with 1000+ posts would understand that.

 

[kidspot]

Hey CompuDude, as a side issue, if your wife gets seasick (which I am very prone to also) you mentioned dosing up the day before, it seems to work really well for many of us. Take a dose before going to bed, then a half dose in the morning before leaving the house - seems to work much better, and I've never noticed drowsiness this way (full dose and I'm sound asleep for several hours basically... still walking and talking, but sound asleep - lol) The other thing I try to do is to stay in the water during my SI as I'm fine when in the water (most people do fine once in the water) as soon as the boat is ready to pull anchor I climb aboard and watch the horizon...

Too bad about her back, otherwise you could do like me and skip the boat for some good shore diving instead However most boats I've been on will let you gear up in the water, and at the end of the dive, doff in the water and they can haul the gear up - once in the water as you know there is no strain on any muscles (except legs if kicking into a current ... but then again that is to be avoided isn't it?)

If you have some calm shore areas for entry you can also pull the gear out past the surf zone and she can don her kit there.

Glad you're back into the "dive zone" again

Aloha, Tim

P.S. If not going the pro route, I'd agree with others that the NAUI MD program sounds like a really good one. You might also check out the essentials course http://www.breakthrudiving.com/classes/outlines/essentials.html with 5thd-x ... a good class to stretch your skillset (and lots of us will vouch for them having an incredible teaching staff)

 

[gdenny]

In fact, now that I think of it, it may even be more than one day of diving. Beats me. All I know is I only have to haul my cookies down to San Diego ONCE to dive the Yukon wreck, and by the time I hit the wreck, I'll be doing on Nitrox and in a dry suit so I don't freeze. THATs what matters. Don't worry, my LDS knows the rules and won't be shortcutting my training.

But trimix classes, deco diving, etc., are all stuff I'll probably get into eventually, if only so I can keep up with the guys who run my LDS.

It sounds like you're in an awful hurry. Just slow down and enjoy the diving. It's not a competition. If you were joking on the "keeping up" part I'll give you that. But it really sounds like you enthusiasm is getting the best of you. There's a reason for the classes and generally it is because you are learning new skills. Skills that should be mastered before you learn additional skills.

The Nitrox course is not the biggest deal in the world outside of knowing your MOD. But I would recommend mastering your bouyancy in the dry suit before penetrating any wrecks. I recommend learning all you can, but take your time.

 

[CompuDude]

It sounds like you're in an awful hurry. Just slow down and enjoy the diving. It's not a competition. If you were joking on the "keeping up" part I'll give you that. But it really sounds like you enthusiasm is getting the best of you. There's a reason for the classes and generally it is because you are learning new skills. Skills that should be mastered before you learn additional skills.

The Nitrox course is not the biggest deal in the world outside of knowing your MOD. But I would recommend mastering your bouyancy in the dry suit before penetrating any wrecks. I recommend learning all you can, but take your time.

Re the "keeping up" part... actually, not entirely a joke. A bunch of the staff at my LDS goes beach diving on a semi-regular basis, but because (a) I don't dive nitrox and (b) I don't currently dive doubles, I literally can't keep up with them, and end up buddying up with someone else and doing our own thing apart from the rest of the group. They do some tech diving stuff I'd like to join in also, but can't without more training.

Learning new skills is fun for me. I'm not trying to overdo it, or take classes faster than I can soak it in, but it IS fun for me, and I'm a quick study. Also, classes are a great excuse to get in the water, and since I don't have people I can dive with regularly at this point, it gets me wet, with both expert supervision and a guaranteed buddy. As an added bonus, it's incentive to schedule a dive. "I paid the money for the class, and this is when the dive is scheduled, so I have to make it work." Life is busy, so finding the free time (and getting permission from my other half) is easier with such excuses. Saying to my wife "This weekend I have to go on a training dive for that class I'm taking" is a lot easier than saying "Honey, I want to go diving this weekend, so I won't see you Saturday. Have fun at home alone!". Such is married life. (totally worth it, of course!)

Oh, and re wreck pentration: The Yukon is very much the "bunny slopes" of wreck diving. It's a huge ship that was custom prepped for ease of diver access when they sunk it... huge holes cut everywhere, nothing dangerous inside, etc. And regardless I'll have an instructor with me teaching the proper way to do it. Very cold, though, so dry suits are practically a must, and it's just deep enough that Nitrox will make a big difference. I won't do any unsupervised wreck diving until I feel 100% confident I can do so safely.

 

[Nomad]

I am a Dive Master. I spend a few Saturdays a month helping with classes at the local shop. The only pay I receive is free air.

I have a seperate career, and I am not interested in attempting to make a living as a DM. When I am diving somebody else's boat on vacation, I typically don't mention that I am a DM, or even a Rescue Diver. (Why add the liability?). My AOW card is generally sufficient to get me on the boat...

The science that I learned during my DM course has been invaluable. When I travel for work and I need reading material for the airplane, I frequently will grab my books from my DM course, as I still find "nuggets of wisdom" in there.

IMHO, Rescue Diver should be required for ANYONE who is serious about diving. Additionally, if you want easy access to decompression theory, and you are the type of person who want's to know "why" instead of just "because", you will never regret pursuing a DM cert.

Perhaps I am not qualified to weigh-in on an issue like this, since I have far fewer than 1000 dives. Surprizingly, I HAVE managed to figure out which end of the regulator to breathe from, so that has got to count for something.

As a final comment, the relationship between a DM Candidate and an Instructor is probably much more involved than anything you have encountered thus far in your dive career. Make sure that you find a good instructor to work with while pursuing your DM cert.

Good luck!

 

[Divesherpa]

I find your assumptions about me both inaccurate and insulting, and your example ludicrous, when applied to my circumstances. And discussion boards are designed for this very thing: discussion. You would think someone with 1000+ posts would understand that.

Sorry if you are insulted, that was not the intention. I can be crass at times. I think GDENNY hit it on the head. Also, the quote about diving because you are paying for it somewhat makes sense. DM training sounds like it would take far more time than you may be able to allot. Becoming a DM is very time intensive.
Is there a dive club close to where you live? Making a few buddies would open up many diving windows.
I'm fortunate in that my wife encourages me to dive. Seems I'm more relaxed after a dive than before (imagine that).

As for DM'ing, it also sounds like you are not really into that part of it. I can't blame you. Most DM work is unappealing and repetitive. The trade-off is that your diving costs are cut. The trade-off to that is that you still spend the same amount on other dive toys because now you get a good deal.

All in all, my suggestion is still valid. Go diving (in as many different locations and climates) as often as possible. Each new location or situation is one more piece to a puzzle that will never be complete. That's the beauty of it: there's always something else to learn. This holds true if you have 30 dives or 3000 dives.

Cheers and safe diving,
Jamie

 

[CompuDude]

All in all, my suggestion is still valid. Go diving (in as many different locations and climates) as often as possible. Each new location or situation is one more piece to a puzzle that will never be complete. That's the beauty of it: there's always something else to learn. This holds true if you have 30 dives or 3000 dives.

That's the plan. Dive as much as i can, learn as much as I can.

 

[in_cavediver]

Re the "keeping up" part... actually, not entirely a joke. A bunch of the staff at my LDS goes beach diving on a semi-regular basis, but because (a) I don't dive nitrox and (b) I don't currently dive doubles, I literally can't keep up with them, and end up buddying up with someone else and doing our own thing apart from the rest of the group. They do some tech diving stuff I'd like to join in also, but can't without more training.

I'll chime in here and say - SLOW DOWN. Tech diving is not something that can be picked up just be taking a class. It requires expierence in the water. The only way to get that is to dive. Over time things will come. If you try to go to far, to quick, you very well could end up a statistic. Take your own route at your pace, and enjoy it. The truth is, sometimes its the 'weeny' dives that offer some of the best diving.

Learning new skills is fun for me. I'm not trying to overdo it, or take classes faster than I can soak it in, but it IS fun for me, and I'm a quick study. Also, classes are a great excuse to get in the water, and since I don't have people I can dive with regularly at this point, it gets me wet, with both expert supervision and a guaranteed buddy. As an added bonus, it's incentive to schedule a dive. "I paid the money for the class, and this is when the dive is scheduled, so I have to make it work." Life is busy, so finding the free time (and getting permission from my other half) is easier with such excuses. Saying to my wife "This weekend I have to go on a training dive for that class I'm taking" is a lot easier than saying "Honey, I want to go diving this weekend, so I won't see you Saturday. Have fun at home alone!". Such is married life. (totally worth it, of course!)

The unfortunate part is that do truly get a lot from the more advanced classes, you need the expierence of just diving. I started the DM program with something like 30 dives. I looked almost as bad as some of the students. I finally took the last exam to cert 9 months after I started (and with over 100 dives, 10-15 class assists, advanced nitrox and cave training in the interum). I waited until I was sure of all of my skills with students before I wanted to actually get the card and take the responsibility. At 30 dives when I started, I really had not buisiness starting as a DMC. The standards may say 20 dives start and 60 to cert but that number is IMHO way to small.

Oh, and re wreck pentration: The Yukon is very much the "bunny slopes" of wreck diving. It's a huge ship that was custom prepped for ease of diver access when they sunk it... huge holes cut everywhere, nothing dangerous inside, etc. And regardless I'll have an instructor with me teaching the proper way to do it. Very cold, though, so dry suits are practically a must, and it's just deep enough that Nitrox will make a big difference. I won't do any unsupervised wreck diving until I feel 100% confident I can do so safely.

Not to lecturing or anything but ANY penetration of a wreck is dangerous. Relying on your instructor to keep you safe is not a good plan either. He is there to teach you and you to learn. By the time you do a penetration dive, you should be able to do it without the instructor. If you can't, you really shouldn't do the dive.

As was stated earlier, if you dive dry, make sure you are in control of your buoyancy before the dive. If for no other reason than you'll enjoy it more. Dry suits aren't difficult but generally speaking, you'll dislike immensely the first 5-10 dives in one. (9 of 9 new dry suit owners/students I dive with agree). After those, it gets a lot better and eventually, you'll hate getting wet while diving.

Nitrox. I think every OW student should learn it as part of the original cert. Its not that hard or complicated.