Tipping guidelines
- Thread starter nwflyboy
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So the argument for tipping is that we the customers should be making up that portion of the employees' fair market compensation which their employers choose not to pay them?
That is indeed the basis for tipping under the US system, at least in certain industries, the restaurant industry being the prime example. Not that it should matter to anyone else, but I choose to tip in Cozumel the same way I would tip in the US, because Cozumel feels to me more like an outpost of Houston than part of Mexico. Their economy has become dependent on us gringos. I don't tip that way in Europe, Australia, etc., where I know employees are properly compensated by their employers. I apologize to all the Europeans and others who come from non-tipping cultures that we Americans have infected Cozumel with our tipping regime, but the horse has left the barn. Cozumel dive ops are unlikely to pay their employees the kind of fair market wage that dive op employees in Europe, Australia, etc., would receive., because there does appear to be some expectation we the customers will leave more or less American-sized tips. However, I absolutely will not criticize others for tipping less.
DFDubb
Contributor
I just find it odd that people are perfectly fine tipping ~20% to a waiter who does maybe 30 minutes of work for them but have a problem doing the same for a crew that spends more than half a day doing very physically demanding work for them.
The whole tipping thing is odd in general and it would be way better if the world just moved away from it already. I'm a very generous tipper when it comes to most things, but could very easily be called a cheap a$$ when it comes to others. I've never once tipped or given a bonus to my mail carrier. I'm not sure I've ever even seen my mail carrier, much less had any sort of interaction with them. And isn't their singular job to literally just deliver mail? There is no good or bad mail service, it simply gets delivered or it doesn't. If someone is unwilling to deliver the mail, they will be replaced by someone willing. Who came up with giving a xmas bonus to mail carriers? Similarly, I never used to tip chamber maids until I started taking dive trips and having lots of misc gear laying around that gets in the way of cleaning quickly. When I was first introduced to the idea of tipping chamber maids, I thought the people telling me this were messing with me. It had never occurred to me. Travelling to areas of the world where you're considered wealthy is always frustrating as it feels like every single person you see wants a tip. I sometimes leave Coz feeling like I've singlehandedly propped up the islands economy. That said, dive boat crews bust their ass for you more than most service industry people, so take care of them IMO.
The whole tipping thing is odd in general and it would be way better if the world just moved away from it already. I'm a very generous tipper when it comes to most things, but could very easily be called a cheap a$$ when it comes to others. I've never once tipped or given a bonus to my mail carrier. I'm not sure I've ever even seen my mail carrier, much less had any sort of interaction with them. And isn't their singular job to literally just deliver mail? There is no good or bad mail service, it simply gets delivered or it doesn't. If someone is unwilling to deliver the mail, they will be replaced by someone willing. Who came up with giving a xmas bonus to mail carriers? Similarly, I never used to tip chamber maids until I started taking dive trips and having lots of misc gear laying around that gets in the way of cleaning quickly. When I was first introduced to the idea of tipping chamber maids, I thought the people telling me this were messing with me. It had never occurred to me. Travelling to areas of the world where you're considered wealthy is always frustrating as it feels like every single person you see wants a tip. I sometimes leave Coz feeling like I've singlehandedly propped up the islands economy. That said, dive boat crews bust their ass for you more than most service industry people, so take care of them IMO.
I think the answer is that, in the US, it is not only the accepted practice for restaurant servers (so-called "tipped employees" by the IRS) to be paid less than the fair market value of their labor but also legally permitted to pay them less than the minimum wage that untipped workers receive. In other words, we all--restaurant owners, employees, and customers--know and at least reluctantly accept that's how the game is played. We customers at least reluctantly play our expected role in the regime by tipping 15-20%. It doesn't matter how hard the server worked--all the stakeholders involved know that our tip is an integral part of the server's normal compensation. Some of us may adjust the tip upwards or downwards a little for good or poor service, but that's about all. In my opinion, if service is poor, the best recourse is for me to leave the normal tip but tell the manager my complaint. It's up to the manager to discipline the server, not me the customer. If service is outstanding--like the server just went above and beyond the call of duty--I might tip more than 20%.
Dive boats are different. At least in the US it's not clear what the crew's status is. Some really do work as volunteers--entirely "for tips." Some are probably paid a wage. It's even less clear to me how they're paid in Mexico, but I suspect they're all paid a wage. So I can see how some customers might tip them less on a percentage basis than they might tip dive crew in the US.
Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, that applies mainly to areas of the world frequented by Americans. We have trained them to seek tips. Before we Americans spread this disease, we would find people begging for money like anywhere else, but they didn't couch it in the form of asking for a "tip."
I'll agree with you there. I don't hand out tips like charity--if I want to help the poor, I find other ways to donate--but I also don't go out of my way to be frugal. I like the idea that I'm contributing to the Coz economy. I tip Coz dive boat crews about the same amount I tip on dive boats back home in the US.
Mr. Manfrenjensenden
Contributor
Seems like there's a lack of basic knowledge among all commenters on this threat -- myself included -- about how much Cozumel dive boat crews get paid, and whether that compensation structure is designed with tips factored in. Could one of the dive shop owners please enlighten us? If for whatever reason you don't want to disclose your own practices, then whether there's a standard on the island or it depends on the shop, whether what shops pay (excluding tips) is considered a comfortable living wage for that area, etc.
First, $10/tank seems to be the most common figure cited and is more than 20% for most ops. Second, there is the corollary debate over percentage versus flat-rate - why should the DM for the $65 shop make less than the DM for the $100 shop when the duties are pretty much the same. Third, it's 4 hours of time but less than an hour of "work" and most DMs genuinely love diving. And finally, my impression is that DM is a pretty coveted job, far harder to get and more desired than being a waiter. The free market tends to balance work and compensation in that if DM was too much work for too little reward then there would be a shortage of DMs and base pay would have to go up.
Dogbowl
Contributor
Cozumel FAQ's - Weather, Water temps, Dive Operators, Taxis, and More
Refer to: How much should I tip, and how are tips handled among the crew?
Written in 2010 by @Christi , dive op owner, so maybe a little dated?
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Mr. Manfrenjensenden
Contributor
I understand that's the custom and guided to by the people who live/work there, but do Cozumel dive shops pay dive crews less because that's assumed as a substantial part of their comp (like restaurants in some states in the US do for tipped employees), or is their compensation complete and then tips serve as a nice top-up (such as a maître d', for instance, who's either salaried or at a full hourly rate but in some restaurants may be tipped quite often)?
Dogbowl
Contributor
I don’t know the answer to that question. I generally don’t concern myself with finding out what my DM/captain/other service provider makes for a living, before I tip them. While I think it’s a very philanthropic gesture, and much to be admired, I don’t think it’s necessary for me. I just follow the industry custom/guidelines, especially a guideline provided by a well-respected dive op on Cozumel. Now, if @Christi comes here and says, yup, the guideline is outdated, and the tipping should now be such and such, then I may adjust my tipping practices accordingly. I trust @Christi is not out to mislead anyone, while also looking out for her peeps.
I do want to provide one example of a well-intentioned action that backfired. In Ontario, Canada, our Premier raised the minimum wage from $11.60 to $14 effective Jan. 1, 2018. It will again be raised to $15 effective Jan. 1, 2019. The rationale was to support the worker and to increase their wages. Definitely well-intentioned but this strategy backfired. Businesses all across the board started letting people go because they either could not afford to keep those workers on or they wanted to maintain their previous levels of profit. Now, if you asked those workers that were let go, would they have preferred to be paid $11.60 or not at all, what do you think they would say? These are also the same workers that are less employable - less educated, older folks, immigrants. I’m not saying these workers should not be looked after, but potential consequences must be considered.
I brought this up because I want people to think about what might happen if all of a sudden, it was determined that the “appropriate” tip was a set-in-stone 20% or more of the dive trip? Are we really doing any favours for the DMs/captains/etc. if divers decided to go elsewhere?
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