Time limit set to help environment!

[Gen San Chris]

Today, I was involved in a collection of Crown of Thorns Sea Stars as a part of the Sarangani Bay Festival using Scuba Divers and local Fishermen so away I went to spend the day removing these nasty beasts from the waters of Sarangani Bay!
Unfortunatly, a Local Government Unit had "Inspected the area and chosen the sites for the project, Barrio's Lago and Tango! Lousy Choice! As we were gearing up, we were informed that the time allowed for the collection was ONE BLOODY HOUR! In the water we went, poor viz as the tide was going out as it was 10.30am and we immediatly noticed a lack of the C of T's in the area! To cut a long story short, I got 16 during my dive and the whole group pulled 280 from the water! This area had been well damaged years ago by fish cages and storms so there was not much coral for the C of T's to feed on anyway!
This was sad to me as I know areas where each diver can and we do pull at least 50 each on every dive but this time there was a bounty of 5 peso's on each C of T taken from the water so maybe they did not want us to get too many as they would have to spend money which they could spend on other things more useful to themselves!
When it was done correctly, privately funded by a Rotary Club a few years ago we removed 128,000 mostly taken by fishermen!
It can be done and C of T's can be controlled if the will is there to do it!
Unfortunatly we have lots of talk and not much action from the Sarangani Government so we will just have to keep getting them ourselves as we see them!

 

[World Wide Diver]

The LGU in charge obviously knew more than you; indeed, how can your many years of knowledge and experience offset local priorites.

Can you employ many caring marine biologists from this thread to undertake a survey to tell us what to do (as some have good ideas).

If the US/Canada/Europe had .1% the corals/marine biodiversity there like here. then they/rest of the world would care more and do something.

As it is, many (as you know) do not travel here - rather they use this area to justify their 'charities', 'good work' or ' personal reputation' OR ' shoot down' the work of good people who are on the front line.

IMO, people can talk big about the PI's. COTS, whatever - but until they actually get off their asses and come here to see for themseleves what the real situation is, then their words are second-hand and without meaning. Especially when they cannot provide papers for us ' mere mortals' to read.

Personally, I am getting a bit sick of this now.

 

[World Wide Diver]

And, for info. we know that you spent time in hospital due to collecting COTS that infected your leg. We have also had injuries (joints) from this lasting several months (though we are careful).

None of us are Filipino, but we care enough to do something to protect Philippines reefs.

CODMAN - you hear me? I challenge you to come to General Santos and see the situation for youself.

You might even have good diving also.

Otherwise, please stick to water fleas.

 

[CODMAN]

WWD, I'm obviously not World Renown enough to come diving in the same area as you. And you being in the Gen San area is reason enough for me to stay well away from it.

I've dealt many a time with people like you. They get frustrated because people confront them with a well informed, logical reasoning to support their ideas, that just happen to not suit your fancy (like the COTs on the reefs don't suit your fancy). And you are at a loss of science/logic based arguments to defend your oppinions, so you loose it. It's really too bad for you because this, added to your blind-overzealous promotion/defense/aggressivity about the General Santos area basically destroys any credibility about the wonderful things you say about it! And it's really too bad, because despite anything you have said about it, I'm sure it's a nice area (this based on what other credible members of this board have said about it).

I honnestly think it's pathetic when someone tries to boost their credibility by stating they dive with people who are world renown in a certain field. Some of the most brilliant Marine Biologists I've had the pleasure of talking to/working with were also some of the most modest people I've met. Maybe you could learn something here...

To the moderator: My most humble appologies to the moderator of this forum and to the other members for this reply. Usually I just let WWD do his thing and make a fool of himself, but this time (once again) there were personal attacks made and I got a bit peeved... Sorry, and please feel free to erase this post if you find it out of order. I obviously understand and I promise I will not react/post to any more of his posts in the future. It won't add anything constructive to the forum, so I'll stay clear.

Cheers!

 

[Hank49]

The LGU in charge obviously knew more than you; indeed, how can your many years of knowledge and experience offset local priorites.

Can you employ many caring marine biologists from this thread to undertake a survey to tell us what to do (as some have good ideas).

If the US/Canada/Europe had .1% the corals/marine biodiversity there like here. then they/rest of the world would care more and do something.

As it is, many (as you know) do not travel here - rather they use this area to justify their 'charities', 'good work' or ' personal reputation' OR ' shoot down' the work of good people who are on the front line.

IMO, people can talk big about the PI's. COTS, whatever - but until they actually get off their asses and come here to see for themseleves what the real situation is, then their words are second-hand and without meaning. Especially when they cannot provide papers for us ' mere mortals' to read.

Personally, I am getting a bit sick of this now.

You aren't paving any new trails in your effort to erradicate cots. It still doesn't seem to have sunk in...the cots are there for a reason. They don't just invade healthy coral reefs. I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and tried to do exactly what you're doing after the coral bleached on the west side of Boracay. The cots came in hoards and cleaned up what coral was left. But, they didn't invade and destroy the healthy corals on the north, east and south sides. Why? healthy corals have natural defenses. Sick, weakened coral doesn't. If Gen San Chris could hardly see the cots due to vis....jeezz...I'm not a REAL marine biologist, but maybe, just maybe, that's part of the problem? Coral doesn't like turbid runoff....not to mention the pesticides that have been detected in high levels in Sarangani Bay.

 

[World Wide Diver]

While cots are natural reef predators, outbreaks do seem to be on the increase which makes them pests. Essentially, very little action is taken here or other places to address this.

Also, most research on cots management seems to come from Australia which has had many reefs already destroyed by cots and is a wealthy nation compared to others in SE Asia. Therefore, who am I to disregard their research and advice as to others who do not follow this?

It seems like there are plenty of experts on cots, but very few actually undertake research on preventing outbreaks. Maybe this is because scientific funding is not available, this is not seen as important or there are political reasons for this.

Also, it is my experience that research often takes years to complete, during which time, the real problems are not tackled.

The situation today requires manpower and commited people to do something about the situation. This, sadly, is often lacking in most places.

While we can examine the causes for cot outbreaks - climate change, pesticides, turbidity, etc - the facts remain that coral reefs are under immediate threat from 'unnatural' causes. We have witnessed this here and many have witnessed the same in other areas.

Removing/killing cots that are destroying reefs (wiping them clean) cannot be worse than doing nothing.

As stated before, subsistence fishermen rely upon healthy reefs to feed their families. Reefs also act as spawning grounds for fish which migrate to areas hundreds/thousands of miles away.

Protecting the one species of animal that is causing most damage to coral reefs has huge consequences for Coral Triangle Countries AND other countries which rely upon these reefs.

Regarding healthy reefs - please define this. Is this just healthy coral, or coral with cot predators? As cots move in colonies numbering thousands (and cots up to 1m across), what 'natural defence' do reefs have against these numbers?

 

[World Wide Diver]

I've dealt many a time with people like you. They get frustrated because people confront them with a well informed, logical reasoning to support their ideas, that just happen to not suit your fancy

Ideas are one thing, taking action is another thing. It is a shame that coral reefs are under immediate threat while many stand by and do nothing other than criticise their efforts.

If you read the latest research on climate change (I assume you have), then the future is looking very bleak right now for coral reefs. Indeed, scientific research seems to indicate that the reefs of the southern PIS and Indonesia have a better chance of survival than other areas.

I only ask if you are a cot expert (or know some) that you use your knowledge to do something positive sooner rather than later.

Better than being abusive.

 

[Hank49]

While cots are natural reef predators, outbreaks do seem to be on the increase which makes them pests.

Regarding healthy reefs - please define this. Is this just healthy coral, or coral with cot predators? As cots move in colonies numbering thousands (and cots up to 1m across), what 'natural defence' do reefs have against these numbers?

Healthy coral reefs. Living in undisturbed, ideal conditions for coral growth and survival. Ideal temperature, salinity, pH, total alkalinity, low metabolic wastes (NH3, NO2, etc)
When any of these are compromised, as in the El Nino of 98 which overheated much of the coral reef areas around the world, the coral is stressed and the natural defence mechanisms aren't fuctional or efficient anymore. This may be enzyme production which repels advancing cots, or filter mechanisms that may actually consume cot larvae.
Once the cots have achieved the biomass you're describing, and what I saw on the west side of Boracay in 99, it's too late. The coral was almost all bleached and white BEFORE the cots showed up.
The example I used of the west side being overrun with them and then stopping at the north end (Yapak), and back side (east facing) is an indicator that healthy coral can repel or control the onslaught of them. Yapak has daily high exchange rates of water due to tide changes and strong current coming in from the deep, cool water and the coral there didn't bleach. The Cots started to show up but not like on the staghorns and huge coral beds of the west side, where there is little tidal current.
I know how you feel. It sucked seeing what happened. But the cots are only the indicator that things have turned to s**t out there. They're not the real problem.

 

[World Wide Diver]

Once the cots have achieved the biomass you're describing, and what I saw on the west side of Boracay in 99, it's too late. The coral was almost all bleached and white BEFORE the cots showed up.

I understand coral bleaching, but have not witnessed this in this area.

The cot infestations seem to be concentrated on healthy, shallow corals - cots 'no.1 tasty bite' are shallow tables.

I have seen the 'trails' of cots from the deep to shallow table corals. They move quickly (surprisingly so!) to the shallows.

Then they work down the reef to eat everything (dessert) on the way down.
At Rocky Beach (Tampuan, Gensan), the corals and marine life is - more or less - as it ought to be. It has the natural predators there that are alleged to eat cots.

But, still they come. Why?

Again, more research into this needs to be undertaken. And, we honestly respect to you for your knowledge.

In the meantime, we place ourselves in the firing line of others who regard cot outbreaks as 'natural'. I accept this.

Respect.

 

[World Wide Diver]

I just want to add to this.

I am just a person who really cares for the marine environment and - particularly - corals.

Corals reefs are without doubt the most important marine organisms in the world.

I am not a marine biologist, but I do recognise that much is at stake if we cannot take some action to care for corals in the PI's and worldwide.

It is unfortunate that many studies now recognise the threats to communities and world economies if corals reefs are destroyed, but not a lot of real action is taken to protect them.

It is my experience that actions speak louder than words.

It is also my experience that very little real action is being taken in the PI's and in other Coral Nations as governments are still waking up to the economics of coral reefs.

If scientists are to have a useful role in the future, then they need to consider ways in which to inform and mobilise communities (and governments) into action to protect coral reefs.

Traditionally, they are not very good at doing this, as they have supercilious/condecending attitudes towards those outside their circles.

Time will tell.