TIFF vs JPEG vs PSD(?)

[andrea31419]

Until I get my digital camera, I'm using film. I've read on the "Digital Diver" Forums that you should save pics as TIFF, because if you save as JPEGS, each time you open to edit, you will lose something from the pic. That's what I understood...if I'm wrong, please correct me.

So...I scanned a pic and saved in TIFF format. When I opened in my photo program and saved, the quality of the pic sucked. When I scanned and saved pic as jpeg, opened in my photo program and saved, quality was much, much better.

My question would be, the best route for me to take, while still using film, and scanning, the saving format to use, be it tiff or jpeg or something else.

Also, why my pics quality was so poor as a tiff file?

Thanks in advance.

Andrea
Savannah, Ga.

 

[Dee]

Of all the digital stuff I've had to learn, resolution/compression has been the most confusing...and I'm still not totally sure about it. I need to learn all this so I don't ruin this next batch of photos for prints like I did the last!

I think as long as you're still using film and having to scan your pics, I'd stay with jpg. Just the scanning process itself loses quality.

TIFF is what they call loss-less, you won't lose any quality. It's also the biggest space hog. The procedure I've learned so far, at least for digitals,

1) Shoot in the highest JPG possible.
2) Download to computer and burn originals to CD
3) Convert to PSD and do all editing (cropp, corrected, sized, sharpened, etc) to this copy
4) Save this edited file in two versions, TIFF/PSD and JPG and you should be covered for whatever you need.

Yes, you now have 4 copies of the file (original, TIFF/PSD conversion, edited TIFF/PSD and edited ready for web JPG), but the archival copies could be on CD, leaving your edited copies as the only ones tying up hard drive space. Some may think it's overkill but I've got the CD's and the hard drive space so why not be safe than sorry?

 

[JustJules]

What scanning software are you using? Some software designed for beginning computer users makes lots of decisions for you. I'm wondering if you choose TIFF if it is scanning the image in a different way than it is when you choose JPEG. Maybe it is deciding to scan 256 colors instead of millions, for example. I would check your scanner software's user manual and see what it says about what it is doing when you select each file format. A file format is a file format, and it should not impact the quality of the image the way you're describing.

A TIFF is an essentially uncompressed image (sometimes LZW compression is applied with TIFFs, but not always). A JPEG is an image that has been compressed using the JPEG compression algorythm. Depending upon how high a JPEG compression you choose, you may lose quite a bit of fidelity in your image, or it may be unnoticeable. A JPEG isn't necessarily a bad thing for your photo quality. A highly-compressed one is. If you have Photoshop and you take an image and "save as" a JPEG, you'll be given a choice about how much compression to apply. You might want to play with that to get a better understanding of the results.

PSD, which you mentioned in your thread title, is the native file format of Photoshop. It has a lot of advantages (like letting you keep layers in an image), but you will end up wanting to convert it to another file format if you're going to get a print made or to do something with it onscreen like use it as a desktop image.

I hope some of this helps. I'll return to lurking but will be curious to hear what others say...

Julie

 

[ReefGuy]

Personally, I would ALWAYS save my pics in Tiff - you. As mentioned above, jpgs are lossy. Try enlarging a jpg. It pixelates quickly. Try with a tiff. Much better results. The downside to Tiffs is that they are huge. A jpg of a photograph (3"x5") may size at about 50-90k. That same photo in Tiff format may exceed 5mb.

Another thing that is confusing about Tiffs is that there are several different formats. Group 3, Group 4, PackBits, B/W, etc.

As far as scanning is concerned. When you scan, make sure you pay attention to the horizontal and vertical resolution. The same photo scanned at 200dpi will be much poorer and sized much smaller than the exace same photo scanned at 600dpi.

My strategy would be to save everything as a tiff. CDRs are cheap. Burn them there in that format only. When you want to send a picture through email or something, resize, convert to jpg, send along, delete jpg.

As far as color compatiblity read as follows:
File Format, 16 colors?, 256 colors?, 16 million colors?

BMP Compressed Y Y N
BMP Uncompressed Y Y Y
CALS N N N
DCX N N N
GIF N Y N
JPEG/JFIF N N Y
PCX Y Y N
PDA Group 3 / Group 4 N N N
PDA Uncompressed N N N
TIFF Group 3 / Group 4 N N N
TIFF LZW Y Y Y
TIFF PackBits Y Y Y
TIFF Uncompressed Y Y Y

As you can see above, some tiffs (including the most common: Group 3/ Group4) cannot handle color at all (I left out the greyscale, but if you're interested in those, I can post as well).

 

[ReefGuy]

Another advantage to tiff, although it doesn't really apply to what you are asking is that tiffs are multipage capable, unlike jpgs.

 

[andrea31419]

Thanks Dee & Jules,

Jules, I use Microsoft Picture It. I like the program, easy to use. My scanner is an HP 3200 (or something..I'll have to check it out). I've had good results with the scanner, but I want good looking pics, not wasting time with the wrong process. I'm going to play around with this tiff to see if I can figure it out.

Thanks again.

Andrea

 

[andrea31419]

Reefguy...thanks.

Now I just have to figure out why my scanned pic in tiff format had such poor quality when I saved in my photo program (Microsoft Picture It). I'll have to double check everything when I scan...when I get home this afternoon...I'm going to practice!

So, once pic is scanned, save in tiff and copy to cd...then if I need to edit to post on web or print, open it in my photo program, then save as jpeg?

Andrea

 

[Dee]

andrea31419 once bubbled...
So, once pic is scanned, save in tiff and copy to cd...then if I need to edit to post on web or print, open it in my photo program, then save as jpeg?

Andrea

I learned the hard way to ALWAYS save a copy of the original on a CD. When my computer crashed I lost hundreds of never to be replaced photos because I was too lazy to make copies.

Andrea...do you have a version of Photoshop? Photoshop Elements is less than $99 with rebates and it does all the things you need it to do for photos. It's like the basic PS without all the bells and whistles.

Reefguy...thanks for the info.

 

[andrea31419]

No, I've got Microsoft Picture It. I'll check out PS Elements.

Dee, I've changed my mind on cameras...I'm getting the Olympus C4040Z.

Andrea

 

[colonelchuck]

Andrea: Looks like you have gotten pretty good advice from the folks above
1. Save tiffs, you can always convert a high quality to something smaller to send or post on the web
2. Take a run at Photoshop elements. Costco has it for a bit less than $99. It has some excellent standard tools that you can discuss with other Photoshop users as you get further into photo manipulation.
3. Burn originals to CDs. You never know when you are going to lose a hard drive.

I have converted to all digital (Canon D60) shooting, but still scan color slides. When scanning, set your scanner to do very little, if any correction or manipulation of the picture. That can best be done in your photo software. Set your scanner to get the highest possible resolution and file size. Again.. Use can use your photo software to produce the photo you want to use.

The Luminous Landscape ( http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/instant_photoshop.shtml ) has a great instant photoshop section.