Thoughts on L&M vs. the competition

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RogerAGrimes

Contributor
Messages
104
Reaction score
15
Location
Key Largo, FL
# of dives
100 - 199
I'm a 12-year U/V hobbyist that does mostly Caribbean type diving. I've used an older model Light & Motion Stingray housing with Sony Hi-8/Digital for 8-10 of those years. Yesterday, after doing a few hours of forum reading and vendor information review, I bought L&M's latest Stringray G2+Premium pack, along with a Sony HDR-XR550V.

Although I haven't received it, I feel like I made a fairly decent decision and purchase. I'm going to love the 240GB hard drive to record to, instead of putting in tapes (and the 12MP stills). All my major camera repair incidents came from replacing tapes between dives. No matter how hard I tried to keep the environment dry, I would end up gunking up the camera heads and would have to send it off to be repaired (after trying to fix it myself for hours). Here's to never opening the housing while near water!

Besides all the great camera features, it seems like the L&M housing has excellent controls, easy to operate, well positioned, and the controls physically separate from the main housing using optical to connect (so less failure points). I think that must be far better than their old way of using magnets (which would sometimes fail to respond).

It's not like I didn't have other problems with my current L&M housing. The external monitor often use to quit on me, ruining the dive or forcing me to always carry the regular external back viewer. I'd send the monitor back, and they would say no problem (this happened a few times over 10 years). The battery lights were horrible in quitting, quick to die, and in general, often didn't work. The camera connection came apart. In the end, over the past year, I would basically turn the camera on, shove it into the housing, and tape continuously during the dive. Turns out that wasn't such a bad idea because I caught more scenes than I missed (waiting for the camera to unpause and resume recording), but I had no controls. I would just pre-set mid-zoom and shoot everything the same. Not optimal. That's why I've been coveting a new camera.

So after doing research yesterday, I was surprised that I choose L&M again. Maybe it's a lot of experience comfort (i.e. I know how to handle the camera). I was even a little put off by the high price (as compared to much of the competition), and the larger size/volume. I was previously salivating over the many very small, low weight, and low price competitors.

I really wanted something smaller (easier to carry and pack during trips). I looked into the single handle handhelds, the other competitor's housings, and even the integrated dive masks. But I didn't see anything that had the feature set, construction, and easy of actual use that L&M did. I was surprised by how many housings didn't even have a red filter or manual WB. Who would use a camera without a red filter? In the end, L&M won me and my dollars again (they've always been an excellent company to deal with). With the exception of the lights and external monitor problems, the old unit was a good unit for 9 years of rough sea handling.

I've already bought my new dream setup, but I'm interested in hearing other thoughts on the other alternatives, competition, or L&M comments...just to hear them.

Plus, I use Pinnacle Studio 14 Ultimate software to edit my videos. It has everything I need (plus three hundred other features), but after 10 years, I still struggle to easily integrate music into my videos (e.g. timing, stops, etc.). Anyone use that product and come up with something better?
 
It's not like I didn't have other problems with my current L&M housing. The external monitor often use to quit on me, ruining the dive or forcing me to always carry the regular external back viewer. I'd send the monitor back, and they would say no problem (this happened a few times over 10 years). The battery lights were horrible in quitting, quick to die, and in general, often didn't work. The camera connection came apart. In the end, over the past year, I would basically turn the camera on, shove it into the housing, and tape continuously during the dive. Turns out that wasn't such a bad idea because I caught more scenes than I missed (waiting for the camera to unpause and resume recording), but I had no controls. I would just pre-set mid-zoom and shoot everything the same. Not optimal. That's why I've been coveting a new camera.

Interesting choice given your previous problems. If you hadn't already spent the money I would have recommended an Amphibico housing. I'm currently on my 7th housing (having traded up several times over the years) and have been extremely happy with Amphibico's design, use and service.
 
I strongly considered Amphico products, especially the Dive Buddy EVO HD Elite II. But it didn't have an auto\manual white balance control, weighed 11 lbs vs. 7lbs for the L&M, and was at least 2-4" bigger in every volume measurement. I had wanted to go even smaller than what the L&M had to offer, so going bigger wasn't an option (in my case). Although 5 lbs and a few inches may not seem like a lot of difference, it is when hand carrying through every airport (especially Atlanta). But it was a close second.
 
You probably already know this, but the 3 big metal housing manufacturers serving the US are:

Light & Motion, Amphibico, and Gates. They each have their loyal fans and I don't know of many people that switch from one brand to another due to dissatisfaction.

On the editing side, be prepared to upgrade your computer if it's more than 3-4 yrs. old. HD video editing requires a powerful computer. Pinnacle, Adobe Premiere Elements and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum are all popular. I suggest downloading their free trial version software to see which you like best.
 
Howdy Roger!

I'm pretty much like yourself as far as being an uw video hobbyist. I too do mostly the Caribbean type of diving. My first set-up was a TopDawg housing with a Sony HC42 camcorder and used that for a couple of years. Last year I purchased the 2009 model Stingray + by L&M and then had the handles upgraded to the "one touch" MWB capability. So far the system has performed flawlessly on three dive trips. The only problem I have had was user error on my part. One call to Amy at L&M fixed that issue.

I had read on here many times from guys like Ronscuba about the importance of having the MWB capability and how much it can improve the quality of of your video. Well they were spot-on. It truly makes a difference. The colors are so much better.

I think you will be really pleased with the 2010 model Stingray +. I'm glad I have the 2009 model because it will accept all of the lens that are currently out there so that may save me a few dollars when I want to buy another specific lens. (Would be easier to find a used one)

I use the Sony CX520 in my housing. At first I had reservations about going from a tape media to a hard drive/flash media. I guess that was just because it was new to me. But now I'd never go back. One feature that really comes in handy is how easy it is to delete clips you don't like. So after a day of diving, I can go back to my room, view the clips, and just press "DELETE" if you don't like a clip. I find it saves me time when I get back home and start to put together a trip video.

All in all I think you made a good decision with the Stingray +.

My next trip will be over the 4th of July when we try and shoot some video of the sand tigers off the coast of North Carolina. I'll be diving with this Rick Allen fellow who owns Nautilus Video. He uses an Amphibico housing. Of course once he sees my Stingray +, he'll want to trade me! :D And there is this Steve Douglas guy out of California who will be along as well. Like Rick, he is quite an accomplished uw videographer. I don't know what he shoots with but he will also want my housing. Maybe I'll get to film he and Rick in an uw James Bond type of battle to see who will get my Stingray +! :popcorn:
 
You probably already know this, but the 3 big metal housing manufacturers serving the US are:

Light & Motion, Amphibico, and Gates. They each have their loyal fans and I don't know of many people that switch from one brand to another due to dissatisfaction.

On the editing side, be prepared to upgrade your computer if it's more than 3-4 yrs. old. HD video editing requires a powerful computer. Pinnacle, Adobe Premiere Elements and Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum are all popular. I suggest downloading their free trial version software to see which you like best.

----
Thanks for the names and suggestions. All my computers are new and running Windows 7. I'll give Adobe Premiere and Song Vegas a try. I didn't think they had trialware, so thanks for the suggestions.

Also, interesting observation about brand loyalty. There is a doctoral paper there somewhere.
 
Howdy Roger!

I'm pretty much like yourself as far as being an uw video hobbyist. I too do mostly the Caribbean type of diving. My first set-up was a TopDawg housing with a Sony HC42 camcorder and used that for a couple of years. Last year I purchased the 2009 model Stingray + by L&M and then had the handles upgraded to the "one touch" MWB capability. So far the system has performed flawlessly on three dive trips. The only problem I have had was user error on my part. One call to Amy at L&M fixed that issue.

I had read on here many times from guys like Ronscuba about the importance of having the MWB capability and how much it can improve the quality of of your video. Well they were spot-on. It truly makes a difference. The colors are so much better.

I think you will be really pleased with the 2010 model Stingray +. I'm glad I have the 2009 model because it will accept all of the lens that are currently out there so that may save me a few dollars when I want to buy another specific lens. (Would be easier to find a used one)

I use the Sony CX520 in my housing. At first I had reservations about going from a tape media to a hard drive/flash media. I guess that was just because it was new to me. But now I'd never go back. One feature that really comes in handy is how easy it is to delete clips you don't like. So after a day of diving, I can go back to my room, view the clips, and just press "DELETE" if you don't like a clip. I find it saves me time when I get back home and start to put together a trip video.

All in all I think you made a good decision with the Stingray +.

My next trip will be over the 4th of July when we try and shoot some video of the sand tigers off the coast of North Carolina. I'll be diving with this Rick Allen fellow who owns Nautilus Video. He uses an Amphibico housing. Of course once he sees my Stingray +, he'll want to trade me! :D And there is this Steve Douglas guy out of California who will be along as well. Like Rick, he is quite an accomplished uw videographer. I don't know what he shoots with but he will also want my housing. Maybe I'll get to film he and Rick in an uw James Bond type of battle to see who will get my Stingray +! :popcorn:


My first dive with the new camera setup will be Morehead City, NC on June 19th. Let me know if you've got an extra slot for the July 4th dive. I'll take it if you've got room, because it sounds like a good videographer trip to be on. I always love the Sand Tigers, because they are toothy and mean looking, but rarely aggressive.

The water is warm and clear off NC these days. I went capturing lionfish there a few weeks ago (when it was still somewhat colder), so I'm looking forward to the 70F+ temps and clear water columns.

I had one old video where my video dive buddy of the time is literally walking on the sea floor next to hundreds of 7-11ft sand tigers off NC. I call it shark hotel. The sharks weren't all over the wrecks that year for some reason, and some old timers suggested running a wreck reel out into the edge of visibility, to see if the sharks were hanging there and had simply left the wrecks when the divers came down. Sure enough, they were right. When we reached the sharks, we found what we thought were a dozen or two sharks. My friend, with video camera in hand, started walking upright on the bottom shooting all the sharks. As we continued to walk further into the water column, we found another dozen or so sharks, and so on as we walked further. Most were resting inches off the bottom although plenty were resting in the water column. There were so many sharks around us that we got a little nervous and decided to retreat back to the wreck and other divers. When we got home and looked at the video, we were amazed at how many sharks were around us. The camera picked up far more sharks in the background and water column than we were seeing in our masks and viewfinders. Instead of it being dozens and dozens of sharks, it was hundreds. The video made us seem like the bravest guys in the world, walking among hundreds of big sharks, when in reality, had we seen that many, we would have filmed remotely and been too scared to walk among them. My wife almost fainted when she saw the video. Unfortunately, I lost the video when a computer long ago crashed (and hadn't backed it up). My friend still has a copy, I'm sure, but we lost contact over the years.
 
You probably already know this, but the 3 big metal housing manufacturers serving the US are: Light & Motion, Amphibico, and Gates.

Actually, I didn't know of Gates. Their XR520 housing looks very competitive to L&M's. It's 2 lbs heavier, bigger volume-wise, but also at least $1000 cheaper. The form factor is interesting as well. Although I'm wondering how you get white balance touch screen when the camera's touch screen is inside the case?
 
Let me know if you've got an extra slot for the July 4th dive. I'll take it if you've got room, because it sounds like a good videographer trip to be on.

Actually, the two guys I mentioned are at the top of their field and will be a good group to dive with and learn from. I'm looking forward to both. Rick is the lead for the trip so if there is an opening, he could let you know. Of course then, instead of them fighting each other, they may just finish us off and take our rigs!
 
Although I'm wondering how you get white balance touch screen when the camera's touch screen is inside the case?
View the .PDF. You can see two control knobs in the LCD description photo. http://www.gateshousings.com/docs/feature sheets/XR520 FS R6 4-14-10.pdf

Either one or the other rotates to select the menu or depresses the button on the camera's LCD screen.

Also (at least on my HC1) you can "promote" the WB control to the top menu screen so it's less steps to MWB.
 

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