The Value of a Turtle - Split from the Honey Girl thread

[rockjock3]

I honestly don't know what person from what culture did this. I do know that if you check the blogs on the newspapers that ran articles that many of the responses are from local (or at least people claiming to be local) that applaud the person that did this because they are only practicing their culture.

If, and I am empasizing IF because we don't really know at this point, this was a local that did this then my questions would be.

---If they claim such deep respect for the land, ocean and animals then why kill the turtle and then try to bury it like a common criminal?
---If this is part of their culture they still wish to practice then why not go through the proper channels to make it legal for them to practice this part of their culture legally. The American Indians where allowed to hunt and take certain numbers of Bald Eagles for cultural reasons even before they were taken off the enangered species list a few years ago. They respected the animal though and took them within the agreed limits and only for cultural reasons.
---If they are so proud and brave for practicing their culture then why bury it and run and hide? Face up to it and be proud.

If it was a non-native that did it then I would ask.

---Can't you read the damn signs
---What was the point? If you are hungry then there are other ways to get food than to slaughter a turtle, cut it up and then try to bury it.

Either way, the fact remains that it was an illegal act and regardless of the reason behind it the person is hopefully found and prosecuted to the fullest extent.

------------------------------------
As for the two hit-and-run incidents last week. Those are dispicable on their own merits. It is amazing that two people hit somebody in the middle of the night and nobody has seen their vehicles since then, noticed the damage, heard the news reports, put two and two together, called the police.

I mean they even have a description of the truck that hit the person up by Dole Plantation.

Hmmmmm. Neighbor sees red truck next door with big dent on front passenger side the next morning. Hmmmmm, maybe the police would want to check that out. Match some of the light-lens fragments. Hmmmmmm.

 

[Tigerman]

...
If, and I am empasizing IF because we don't really know at this point, this was a local that did this then my questions would be.

---If they claim such deep respect for the land, ocean and animals then why kill the turtle and then try to bury it like a common criminal?
---If this is part of their culture they still wish to practice then why not go through the proper channels to make it legal for them to practice this part of their culture legally. The American Indians where allowed to hunt and take certain numbers of Bald Eagles for cultural reasons even before they were taken off the enangered species list a few years ago. They respected the animal though and took them within the agreed limits and only for cultural reasons.
---If they are so proud and brave for practicing their culture then why bury it and run and hide? Face up to it and be proud.
...

Id also ask "and why the heck didnt you use the entire animal instead of just chipping off a chunk of it"...

 

[rockjock3]

The North Shore of Oahu and the Kona Coast have a number of turtle haul out beaches. Researchers theorize that our ocean temps are at the cold extreme of the green sea turtle's range, so they occasionally warm themselves out of the water. No other location that I've heard of has this green sea turtle behavior.

All that I have read, and been told by the volunteers is that they beach themselves to clean the salt out of their systems. You can watch them spit salty, foamy water out while they are on the beach. No theories, what they have actually observed and found out.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

All that I have read, and been told by the volunteers is that they beach themselves to clean the salt out of their systems. You can watch them spit salty, foamy water out while they are on the beach. No theories, what they have actually observed and found out.

National Geographic's green sea turtle page only mentions the warming theory. There are more green sea turtles that only negotiate land for egg laying than our beach lovers; where do all those others get rid of salt?

While most sea turtles warm themselves by swimming close to the surface of shallow waters, the Eastern Pacific green turtle will take to land to bask in the sun. Occasionally seen sunbathing alongside seals and albatrosses, it is one of the few marine turtles known to leave the water other than at nesting times.

The turtles.org Hawaiian green sea turtle page contains similar wording.

One interesting behaviour of the Hawaiian green turtle is its fondness for crawling ashore at isolated sites in order to bask. Basking is rare among marine turtles, and has been observed in only a few populations in the Pacific. Hawaiian green turtles bask, but this behaviour seems to be limited to the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands. It is thought that they do this for thermoregulation (they like to warm up in the sun), resting (they like to sleep in the sun), and perhaps for protection from tiger sharks (they don't like to be eaten). Sounds just like people to us.

The only mention I could find from NOAA was from the Midway site where they just use the basking term.

Disturbing turtles basking on the beach may result in them avoiding those beaches as they do not feel "safe". As they mature, sea turtles will not nest at beaches where they have been disturbed in the past. Rules at Midway require all to stay at least 100 feet away from any basking sea turtle.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Is it not possible that I mourn the loss of a turtle, pray for the family of a hit and run victum, and do as much as I can to support our military? I often feel deeply when animals are hurt and abused because animals can't really "speak up".

I also feel I can't stop wars, crime, and people going hungry, but I can sometimes help. I want to help and often I can.

And my last thought is an animal has never belittled me for my feelings. Never met a turtle, dog, cat, or bird who called me names or told me I was foolish to want to mourn a loss. There are millions of people in this world and maybe it's ok for a few of us to have deep emotions and concerns for animals, the land, and mother earth.

I wouldn't save a dog or turtle over a human being! I wouldn't feed wildlife or feeding another human being. But why insult and belittle the causes of others, I think if you believe in doing something different...DO IT!, don't use hurtful words to others that are DOING their own thing. I couldn't even read the threads on this turtle because I was so upset over a large grouper being killed and just left on the ocean floor by some man who wanted to kill a grouper that day in front of his friend.

Let the people grieve and mourn in a way that will help heal their hearts. I love Hawaii and I found the people there very giving and generous. I still can't believe they open thier islands to all us careless and often thankless tourist. I have such fond memories of seeing turtles swimming near me. What a gift such memories are...

 

[Cacia]

My main concern is that environmentalists don't lose credibilty by acting silly.

Yes, you can feel it all, but once you start focusing your efforts and money on the *wrong*

priorities, as opposed to the real threats, you just really lose a lot of people. With environmental

issues, it is important to choose your battles and keep your eye on the ball.

Are they certain that the turtle was filleted with a knife? Many say that we are seeing an

increase in Tiger activity due to the overgrown turtle populations since protection. (Similiar

to what happened with the northern California seal populations and shark feeding)

 

[HoneyGirlRewardFund]

In regards to Honey Girl's death, a necropsy/autopsy was performed and it was determined that she was deliberately killed...knife marks, bone cuts and scratches, specific organs/body parts removed, etc. Her death was not natural and not an accident, i.e. a boat propeller, shark, etc. It was not determined why the meat and organs were taken...the results were inconclusive as to "why" and as to "who."

 

[wardric]

When I learned english many years ago, I learned that animals should be reffered as "it" instead of "he" or "she". Maybe I had a bad teacher because I hear more and more people referring to animals as he or she.

I'm gonna ask a question, not that I dont know what the probable answer is, but just for discussion purposes. Would there have been a reward, a necropsy/autopsy and all that mass sympathy if the turtle killed was just a turtle and not Honeygirl? Believe me, I find disgusting that a threatened animal was killed for nothing as it seems to be the case. But I would be as disgusted if it was any turtle, or a monk seal, or a manatee.

 

[HoneyGirlRewardFund]

Personally, I would have responded in the same way. I did not personally know Honey Girl- I would have been outraged if the turtle had no name and was unknown. Indeed, that is really what this entire thing is all about- to protect all of the turtles- known or unknown. Thank God Honey Girl's death can at least do that- save her fellow turtles. That's what we intend to do. Turtles, as you may know, can't help themselves...it is up to us.

 

[PhilEllis]

Personally, I would have responded in the same way. I did not personally know Honey Girl- I would have been outraged if the turtle had no name and was unknown. Indeed, that is really what this entire thing is all about- to protect all of the turtles- known or unknown. Thank God Honey Girl's death can at least do that- save her fellow turtles. That's what we intend to do. Turtles, as you may know, can't help themselves...it is up to us.

So, how much has been raised thus far? Have there been any disbursements from the contributions raised? Thanks.

Phil Ellis