The use of AEDs near water

[tddfleming]

We all just finished our CPR, First Aid and AED class last month. When the family wanted to get cert. I/we made it a requirement that we would all HAVE to take our CPR class and rescue class, this was NOT up for discussion. Since it was myself, husband and 12 yr old daughter, as she was the driving force for getting certified. I did not want to leave things to chance or finding out through our own experience. She had been bugging us for years to do this. I know this could easily get into the order of which one takes or does not take classes, but that is not where I want to go with this. I just wanted to give a little background.

Anyways, I awoke this am with a thought going through my head. Can one use the AED while a person is wet or lying in water???? Aside from the pad sticking or not, would this harm the person any further? Or do you have to make sure they are dry and no water around them? I understand that one would have to cut the wire bra off in front and if nipple rings connected by chains that would have to be cut, but what about water???

 

[Wookie]

The manufacturer of my AED recommends that the AED not be used if the diver is immersed in water, it is OK if the diver is on a wet deck, a wet carpeted deck, a wet carpeted aluminum deck, and in a wet wetsuit. Aside from the pads not sticking, the diver may be wet. The nipple rings and underwire bra issue is to prevent burns, not reduce effectiveness of the AED, and that is questionable. I'm betting that if an AED was used to save a live, and the victim had a burnt line under her breast, they wouldn't get to to upset about being alive.

 

[tddfleming]

The manufacturer of my AED recommends that the AED not be used if the diver is immersed in water, it is OK if the diver is on a wet deck, a wet carpeted deck, a wet carpeted aluminum deck, and in a wet wetsuit. Aside from the pads not sticking, the diver may be wet. The nipple rings and underwire bra issue is to prevent burns, not reduce effectiveness of the AED, and that is questionable. I'm betting that if an AED was used to save a live, and the victim had a burnt line under her breast, they wouldn't get to to upset about being alive.

Agreed Wookie! You cleared up what was racing through my head this am. Just wondering if one would need to get a towel dry person off, and how much time that would waste or making sure there was no water around at all. What do you mean by questionable with the nipple rings and wire bra??? Come to think of it, there are bathing suits that have the wire bra in them.

 

[Wookie]

Most underwires (at least the ones that I've seen) are coated with plastic to prevent rust stains from fouling a bra. Nipple rings are not in line with where the shock travels. For a piece of metal to cause a burn, or even be involved with the electricity the AED provides, it must be in line with the current so it may heat up. An AED targets the heart. That's why the pad placement is where it is, so the heart is between the 2 pads. Like directly in line with the 2 pads. That leaves metal bits not in line with the 2 pads, unless you are in a pacemaker situation. I don't know what would happen if you had a pacemaker and tried to shock, but the pacemaker itself prevents fibrillation from occurring. One of the fine doctors here can probably explain better than I, but if a pacemaker patient has a heart attack, you'd likely get a no shock message from the AED anyway.

We have a HeartStart FR2+ we bought from DAN many years ago. We keep it in the pelican case it came in. In that Pelican case is a small McNett chamois divers towel to dry the pad placement location.

I have had to use my AED. Although I am a pretty calm person, I will tell you from experience that concerns about bra underwire burns and decorative jewelry are not worth losing 1 second of sleep over, because you won't waste 1 second of time worrying about it when you push that start button on the AED.

Furthermore, it is OK if the rescuers are wet also. The rescuer should not touch the victim while the AED is analyzing or delivering a shock, but kneeling on a wet deck next to the victim is not harmful to the rescuers.

 

[Cave Diver]

What do you mean by questionable with the nipple rings and wire bra??? Come to think of it, there are bathing suits that have the wire bra in them.

If I'm ever in defib and you're nearby with an AED handy, you have my permission to shock first and worry about nipple rings and wire bathing suits later.

 

[tddfleming]

If I'm ever in defib and you're nearby with an AED handy, you have my permission to shock first and worry about nipple rings and wire bathing suits later.

Oops, you slipped with your secret of wearing the underwire bathing suits

When waking the morn, I had not worries about the underwire or nipple rings but would being around water or wet make things worse rather than better?

 

[Cave Diver]

Oops, you slipped with your secret of wearing the underwire bathing suits

I only use those to hide my nipple rings.

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

tddfleming,
As you've already noted, you'll have to dry the patient's chest before applying the AED pads. The defibrillation energy will take the path of least resistance, and on a patient with a dry chest, that will be through the patient between the pads. The shock should not present any danger to bystanders who are not touching the patient. Make sure the AED is on a dry surface and that the person operating the AED is reasonably dry, i.e. not dripping water all over it. Regarding nipple rings, etc... don't delay defibrillation trying to pull out somebody's bling. Like Capt. Frank said, if they wake up with a burned nipple, at least they woke up. Thanks to you and your family for going the extra mile to learn BLS.
Best,
DDM

 

[tddfleming]

I only use those to hide my nipple rings.

I guess there is worst placed for rings????

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

I guess there is worst placed for rings????

And the AED will NOT help return those parts to function.

Since we've mentioned underwire bras and bathing suits, note that the "paramedic" type sheers many divers carry commonly have a small notch that was originally intended for cutting the underwire and does so quite well.

Wookie: The pacemaker is not really an issue. The AED will fire only on particular cardiac dysrhythmias that can be "converted." The AED makers put their R&D efforts into algorithms for reliably detecting those dysrythmias, and the narrow pacemaker spike will be not in any way mask them or make them unreadable. It is recommended to place pads away from directly over a pacemaker, if you can see it, but that's about all the notice you have to take. Otherwise, any pulseless, apnic condition calls for CPR.