The state of the diving tourism industry in Belize

[slenderff]

That's not the issue.

The issue is that you are anonymous, your allegations are unverifiable and you've extrapolated your alleged experience(s?) to blanket every single dive operator in an entire country. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

Exactly my point. AWMIII seems unable to back up his outlandish statement.

 

[peterbj7]

I've spoken to AWMIII by pm and he's told me who he's referring to. His decision is so as not to launch a witch hunt as he sees the problems as more institutional than relating to individual operators. I think he's right so I defend his decision not to name names. Authorities here are being informed of some of these issues, so they know specifics. As indeed do PADI and they also won't name names, though they did publish to members (only) details of bans they have recently issued here in Belize. PADI's bans were well founded, and my concern about institutional deficiencies is borne out by official inaction over those people/organisations PADI thought bad enough to strike off their books.

 

[Downing]

Glad to hear the issue is being addressed.

 

[yakivet]

Last week, I personally witnessed a ~30ft dive boat from a well known value operator from San Pedro that was unable to start either of the engines and was drifting uncontrollably onto the reef into the breaking waves. The boat captain refused to speak with the crew from our boat and was intent on attempting to start an engine using the strap from a life jacket. Several times the crew from our boat asked him what they could od to help. Did he need a jump start ect. Finally, a dm from our boat grabbed his fins swam over to the boat, got up on the bow, and heaved his bow line to our boat so that we could tow him off. He was 25 yards from the large surf which would have destroyed the boat and maybe cost the captain his life. I later asked our crew why he would not talk to them. They explained that he was very high. I was also told that he didn't anchor because he had no anchor. His divers were in the water God knows where and the boat was nearly lost in the surf during their dive.

I watched diver after diver go into deco and violate their obligation last week. Almost everyday there was at least one offender on the second dive. One day there were several out of 10 divers. We dove profiles that took constant attention to avoid a deco obligations. About half the divers were without computers. I asked one if he had planned his dive, he didn't know what I meant.

AWMIII-
I also was on the dive boat last week that came to the aid of the powerless boat. I fully agree, it was a wreck waiting to happen if it wasn't for the actions of our dive shops owner. The boat would have been a total loss and it's Captain would have been in serious trouble. While we pulling the boat from the reef, my thoughts were, "and the divers on that boat will probably never know".

Despite your unpopular opinion on this board, I believe that you have made some very good points and I intend to back you up on a few of them. I have been diving in the Ambergris Caye area for a number of years. Probably now close to 150 dives in that area alone. While I certainly havn't visited all the dive shops, I've visited a few and taken a look at many others. I've also witnessed events from a number of shops that I'd never even consider using. I don't think that its completely accurate to say that all the dive operations or dive masters in Belize suffer from universal issues, but I believe that there are universal trends that affect most shops in one way or another.

I believe there are factors within San Pedro that tend to set it apart from other parts of Belize, or even other parts of the Caribbean. Right off hand, I can't think of many areas within easy reach of the United States that have such a large number of dive operations in such a small geographical territory. Tourism has certainly dropped off in the last few years, just ask any merchant on Ambergris, but I believe the Island still gets a significant number of divers, and many of them very inexperienced.

I believe that although the intentions of the Belize Tourism Board are well intentioned to preserve jobs for their local population, by placing the requirement on Dive Masters, they potentially restrict the pool of possible candidates. I have been diving with a number of exceptional Dive Masters. I've also been with a few that I consider to be "second tier". Despite the rigorous training requirements for DM's through the various Dive affiliations, lets face it, not all DM's are good at what they do. When you've got a "closed pool" so to speak, i believe that there's a tendency for these lesser qualified DM's to find work and stick around. When you combine these second tier DM's with a bunch on inexperienced divers, it sets up a scenario for trouble. I agree that when you've got a lot of job hunters for a few positions, you're probably going to get a better qualified candidate. Around the caribbean, where DM's shift around, coming from a variety of countrys with a variety of previous work experiences, i think it creates a "better qualified" mix.

On this last trip, on multiple occasions, I witnessed certification students getting some excellent training from their DM instructors. On the other hand, I witnessed previously certified divers that really didn't have a clue. In one instance, a diver on his second dive of the day, failed to fulfill his DECO obligation prior to surfacing. He wasn't really concerned about the screaming computer. The next morning he was diving again with a different one of his computers. DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!

With the typical Ambergris dive Scenario: On the first dive, despite the Max recommended Depth of 80ft, it often turned into 100. With an hour and 15 minute surface interval, the 2nd dive though planned to 60, usually ended up at 80. Not a problem if you're paying attention, but a recipe for disaster if you're not. Ambergris is built for deeper diving. The easily reachable dive sites have the most to see at the 70-100ft range. With only one provider of Nitrox on the Island, (32%) and a $10.00 US charge per tank, most divers will continue to use Air.

All in All, I think San Pedro creates a situation with deeper diving and inexperienced divers that really don't understand the principles behind the actions. Its the "San Pedro culture". You combine it with a reluctance to use EAN 32 and the occasional "second tier" DM and you create an atmosphere that contributes to the concerns that "AWMIII" brings forward.

Personally, I love Belize. I tend to go deep and stay long. On this last visit I spent a considerable amount of time doing my part to thin out the local Lion Fish population. I dive with 2 fairly conservative computers, an Aeris and a Suunto, and usually during the dive, one of the two shows a DECO obligation some time during the dive. I also spend a lot of time at 30-40 feet during the tail end of my dives, with 3-5 minute safety stops prior to surfacing. Both computers are always well cleared before I exit the water. I will continue to dive Ambergris for its diving, its ambiance, and its "lack" of rules. :42: Ken

 

[Downing]

Ken, just to be clear, no one here wanted to shoot the messenger because we didn't like the message.

Three of us objected to his condemnation of all dive ops in Belize and gave specific examples from personal experience of operators we know that follow safe practices. Even though we objected, two of us actually agreed with the OP that he had some valid points.

I know Ambergris Caye is by far the most popular tourist destination in Belize, but I think it's important to remember there's a lot more to the country than just that one island.

 

[ScubaERDoc]

Thank you for bringing these issues to light AWMIII. I think that the one of the most valuable aspects of SB is the ability to informally peer-review our safety practices. I had a wonderful time in AC and would dive there again. But definitely I noticed attitudes which were more casual that I would have liked to see. Specifically during our Blue Hole/Halfmoon Caye/Aquarium dives. I saw one diver in particular who was just plain bad. Really all over the place and expending tons of gas. She ended up on the DM's octo on back-to-back dives for the last two dives. Amazingly the DM continued his dive both times with her on a long-hose for several minutes (albiet at shallow depths) before ascending for SS. This was so astounding to me that I took video to show my friends what not to do. What was truly mind blowing was that this same accident-in-waiting diver was on the actual Blue Hole dive which was the first dive of the day. To 140 feet. The DM told us that we would be doing an extending 8 min safety stop. Figured that this was their way of building in an actual DECO stop for divers without a computer. My girlfriend and I both dove with computers and were very careful with staying without our limits, doing our own deep stops, etc. Could totally see how bad misadventures could happen.

AC was a wonderful place to visit and certainly if you are a safe diver will be a safe environment. Unfortunately not everyone is a safe diver

 

[AWMIII]

Thank you for bringing these issues to light AWMIII. I think that the one of the most valuable aspects of SB is the ability to informally peer-review our safety practices. I had a wonderful time in AC and would dive there again. But definitely I noticed attitudes which were more casual that I would have liked to see. Specifically during our Blue Hole/Halfmoon Caye/Aquarium dives. I saw one diver in particular who was just plain bad. Really all over the place and expending tons of gas. She ended up on the DM's octo on back-to-back dives for the last two dives. Amazingly the DM continued his dive both times with her on a long-hose for several minutes (albiet at shallow depths) before ascending for SS. This was so astounding to me that I took video to show my friends what not to do. What was truly mind blowing was that this same accident-in-waiting diver was on the actual Blue Hole dive which was the first dive of the day. To 140 feet. The DM told us that we would be doing an extending 8 min safety stop. Figured that this was their way of building in an actual DECO stop for divers without a computer. My girlfriend and I both dove with computers and were very careful with staying without our limits, doing our own deep stops, etc. Could totally see how bad misadventures could happen.

AC was a wonderful place to visit and certainly if you are a safe diver will be a safe environment. Unfortunately not everyone is a safe diver

I have watched DMs take tourists on their octopuses to continue dives with several operators down there. Last week, I saw it on about half of my dives and it was at 70+ feet. One time the OOA diver blew off a deco stop with the DM. That was with a different operator than your Blue Hole trip.

 

[Steve Egner]

I would like to agree that we will not name names in the this thread. I do not feel it is necessary as all of the operators seem to practice the same basic shabby safety practices.

Universal issues:
Deco
Extremely agressive profiles on reptitive dives
Not evaluating divers credentials/experience
Shabby rental equipment
Questionable training practices
Boat safety
Total disregard for the value of buddies
Gas management
Handling marine life
Chumming

Please list your experiences from Belize, but do not name shops. All of the shops are at fault to some extent. I really think that the source of this line of thinking is that the DMs and Instructors from Belize rarely dive in other parts of the world. What happens in Belize stays in Belize. A quarterly meeting with a rep from PADI is not going to address this issue.

For the record, I will continue to dive in Belize. I just wish that divers would have an understanding of how self relient tourist divers in Belize need to be. The shops will pretend like they are taking care of you, but in reality, your safety is up to you. It is my hope that the Native requirement of the Belize Tourism License be dropped in favor of making the industry safer and potentially more successful.

After reading all the comments in this thread, it seems more important than ever to mention positive experiences with Belize dive operations. I made 13 dives with Hopkins Divers, out of the Hamanasi Resort, in Hopkins, Belize, last December. I found them to be an exceptionally safe, professional operation by any measure. Considering the OP's "universal issues" in order: Never, at any time, did any diver come close to entering Deco. All dive profiles were conservative, with generous surface intervals, usually held on an island near the barrier reef. My certification level was verified before I was allowed to book our dives. I bring my own equipment, but my Children's equipment was in like-new condition. BC's, reg & octo with computer, and wetsuits were all in excellent shape. My kids, ages 13 and 15, did their checkout dives and received thier Open Water certification under Terrill C., who proved to be a firm instructor, insistent on perfect skill demonstrations during each dive. Every outing included a basic boat safety lecture, and their boats were in excellent condition. Diver/DM ratios usually 3/1 or 4/1 at most on the barrier reef. On a 3 tank outing to Glover's Reef, we had one DM for 6 divers, and were kept to a tight group, with the buddy system observed. We were instructed to alert DM's at 1000 psi, and to begin slow ascents to our safety stops with no less than 700 psi. With the exception of Lionfish, no marine animals were molested. We found the Lionfish were delicious. There was no chumming or fish feeding at any time, but we did feed fish guts to the birds while fileting, which was fun.

In stark contrast, I did book an outing with another charter to visit the Blue Hole and adjacent reefs, for a 3 tank dive. Hopkins Divers couldn't make the run during my stay, so I booked the 12th and final spot for the trip with a different operation. Pre-dawn, I was the first one to the dock. A deck hand asked to borrow my dive light, and he worked under the engine cover while the other guests arrived, until well after our scheduled departure time. No sweat, right? Somewhere well beyond the barrier reef, the engines had to be shut down, and once again the mechanic dropped below, armed with my dive light. No biggie, I had a car like that once. That kind of stuff really doesn't get to me. What did surprise me was the presence of a newly certified family of 5, who had finished their checkout dives the week before. We all made the descent to 145', and safely back again, though the youngest member of that family was somewhat shaken. There was no buddy system, only a herd system, which left me with a disappointingly large volume of air at the end of every dive.

I know that someday I'll return to Belize, I'll visit Hopkins Village, and I'll dive again with Hopkins Divers. As for the other guys...

crickets chirping

 

[Allen Raphael]

My wife and I traveled to AC several years ago and stayed in San Pedro. We really fell in love with the casual atmosphere that the locals exude in their dealings with tourists and that care free attitude does seem to extend to the particular dive operation we used. I am relatively experienced with around 100 or so dives but my newly certified wife did have a positive experience. As a previous post mentioned, the "planned" versus "actual' dive times/depths do differ once you're in the water. Thankfully she was very comfortable in the water and the DM's really did keep a close eye on all of us. We are actually going back 3 weeks from now and will frequent the same dive shop...they earned our trust from the first plunge.

I will say that we found the instructors in the Red Sea (Sharm El-Sheik) were incredibly careful to keep a close eye on their divers, perhaps because the European instructors (mostly British and German) have a different approach to this? Check out dives were the norm for my wife there and the attention to detail was notably different. Some would view this as excessive but when tourism in that region is 100% dependent on keeping divers safe, it's understandable.

Can't wait to go back but we'll keep our eyes wide open!

 

[Magnolia3]

32 days in country and you ALL about the politics in Belize...
the problem IS outside influence.......