The soloist

[Sas]

In my mind (admittedly a strange and often scarey place!) solo diving translates well into some other "have to ask" areas.

Venomous snakes in captivity. If you have to ask where to buy one, you are not ready to keep them.
Price tags in a jewelery store. If you have to ask how much, you probably can't afford it.

Time and experience will teach you almost everything you need to know about the gear needed and techniques used in solo diving. This forum is better suited to debate the merits of X over Y, it is not, and should never be thought of as a classroom, IMO. It is also not a place where we tell people what they can and can not do (that right goes to the government, and BTW solo diving can be against local regulations, so be sure to check that out before you go)

I like the above points about "have to ask" areas and also about how here is not where one should seek to be told what they can and can't do. I am very new to solo diving, only done a couple of very easy ones so take this with a grain of salt, but I have to say, if you need to come on a diving forum and ask a bunch of strangers if you are ready to solo dive you're going about it the wrong way. You don't need 'permission' to go solo diving and if you have to ask others if you're ready you quite possibly aren't. But yea I don't know you Tropitan (I don't think anybody else here does either?) so pretty hard to answer your question about whether you should do it and don't really think it serves any purpose to do so anyway.

Also, you give an example of how your reg was yanked from your mouth and you reacted calmly by putting in back in your mouth. This is great and all, but one should be able to do that calmly right after OW... My OW instructor used to rip out our regs or pull off our masks unexpectedly for that very purpose. Stuff can go MUCH MUCH worse than this so I don't think this is really a test of how you will react under fire. At 30 dives unless you've been really unlucky I doubt much has gone wrong for you to really test how you will handle it. As well as being able to handle things calmly there is also being able to handle things effectively as well and be fully aware of all the things that can go wrong. I know the more I dive, the more I see things go wrong, with my own kit, conditions changing, or other divers (the last one in particular - hence why I have started solo diving ) and you become quicker and more ingenious at solving things under water without needing to CESA any time something goes wrong. I would say even shallow dives, CESA is still the option of last resort if something should go wrong.

Anyway, my 2c. I don't want to come across as telling you not to solo dive, that's your call, just wanted to add some more info about the problems with starting solo diving with not much experience.

 

[DaleC]

Now image the worst dive possible...the one where everything went wrong. Do you feel like you could deal with everything that life could throw at you and solve all imaginable problems while underwater? If you can answer yes, maybe you are ready to start thinking about solo diving. If not maybe more dives and more experience would be in order.

No offense but.. what a lot of hooey. When the worst dive happens you probably die. Every diver that takes personal responsibility for their actions ought to have accepted that possibility. What happens to a well trained, team oriented cave diver or a tech diver with serious deco obligation when they pass out? It is the great lie we tell ourselves that we can solve every problem, every time. Soloing is just another aspect of the sport like caving and technical diving, nothing more. There are risks... and there are rewards. You don't have to be a Jedi knight to begin learning, just able to use common sense.

Is it because it's a hell of a lot easier to get yourself killed diving?

and it's a hell of a lot easier to get killed skydiving but you start soloing after jump 8 or 10 and hang gliders are taught to solo from the get go.
What's the difference?
In those sports adults are treated like adults who can make up their own minds regarding risk/reward. Why do we assume in diving that adults can't be trusted to do the same thing?
I know we all want to feel special but diving isn't that "mystical".

I may come off sounding cavalier about safety concerns but I'm not. I'm a very conservative diver and attentive to the safety of others when diving in a group but I respect other peoples abilities to think for themselves and who follow their own paths. Maybe it is fortune cookie thinking but my heroes/role models have always been men who thought that way and I have tried to model my behavior after them.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Tropitan:

First a quick question: Scuba forums have one section backpacking forums don't. What is it? (Ponder that for a second)

Think about the worst backpacking trip you ever had, the one where the nice weather turned to snow, the stove wouldn't light, everything you ate was cold and soggy, the trail wasn't marked, you missed a turn and had to back track for hours, a blister for each toe, and sprained your ankle. Sounds like a sucky trip, but at any point was your life in danger? You dealt with each problem that you could and made do.

Now image the worst dive possible...the one where everything went wrong. Do you feel like you could deal with everything that life could throw at you and solve all imaginable problems while underwater? If you can answer yes, maybe you are ready to start thinking about solo diving. If not maybe more dives and more experience would be in order.

Still pondering that question?...

.

What a load of CRAP! There are many, many things that might happen while diving and many of them have no solution. You are simply dead or seriously injured. Having a buddy, a lot of gear and/or experience may make little or no difference in outcome.

I get a laugh out of this attitude. We steal our fun underwater and need to recognize that every single time we stick our heads underwater we may not be coming back. We can NOT dominat the ocean, we simply try to get away with as much as we dare for as long as we dare, but there will always be risks that are unavoidable.

 

[DaleC]

In my mind (admittedly a strange and often scarey place!) solo diving translates well into some other "have to ask" areas.

Venomous snakes in captivity. If you have to ask where to buy one, you are not ready to keep them.

But where do you learn to keep em??? What way is there to learn about keeping venoumous snakes other than to keep them. I would hazard to guess that most, if not all, venomous snake keepers just wanted to and did it. Very few probably took a course.

Price tags in a jewelery store. If you have to ask how much, you probably can't afford it.

That's not true at all. Maybe I'm just Scottish but I always ask the price. It's just good fiscal management. Do you really buy jewelery without asking the price... Really?

 

[Sas]

But where do you learn to keep em??? What way is there to learn about keeping venoumous snakes other than to keep them. I would hazard to guess that most, if not all, venomous snake keepers just wanted to and did it. Very few probably took a course.

That's not true at all. Maybe I'm just Scottish but I always ask the price. It's just good fiscal management. Do you really buy jewelery without asking the price... Really?

If you know anything about jewelery, you will have an idea of price and will not need to ask. Fair enough, if you don't know about jewelery you will need to but this shows you have no idea about jewelery

Also, if you know anything about keeping venemous snakes, you will know where to buy them. If you want to keep a pet, then you need to research keeping them enough first or else you are an irresponsible keeper. I see this all the time with caudates (my other obsession besides diving). People coming on the forum going 'where can I buy [such and such caudate]?' and then soon after will be posting 'uhh my newt is really sick?' and you'll find out they've been feeding them completely inappropriate food and the water quality is crap and the temperature is all wrong.

I think the same principle applies to solo diving. If you have to come and ask what kind of redundant gear is needed to go solo diving, then it shows you do not know much about diving, let alone solo diving. Also if you need to ask whether you are up to solo diving, then it shows you do not know your own limits. I think in order to be a safer solo diver, one should have a very good understanding of what redundancy they need, and also what their own limits are. Actually, this pretty much applies to all diving and the more you dive the better you know your gear requirements and the better you know your limits.

 

[DaleC]

If you know anything about jewelery, you will have an idea of price and will not need to ask. Fair enough, if you don't know about jewelery you will need to but this shows you have no idea about jewelery

Sas, that's just silly. There are jewelers all over the world licking their lips, waiting for customers who are too proud to ask the price. Asking the price has nothing to do with knowing jewelery. It has to do with knowing the price. One would never know in your case because one was too set on showing they "knew about jewelery". The mindset above is actually what gets divers into trouble. Not wanting to seem "ignorant or a newbie" so not asking the question.

Also, if you know anything about keeping venomous snakes, you will know where to buy them. If you want to keep a pet, then you need to research keeping them enough first or else you are an irresponsible keeper. I see this all the time with caudates (my other obsession besides diving). People coming on the forum going 'where can I buy [such and such caudate]?' and then soon after will be posting 'uhh my newt is really sick?' and you'll find out they've been feeding them completely inappropriate food and the water quality is crap and the temperature is all wrong.

Again with that faulty logic. I have been a fish hobbyist for 20 years and am self employed full time as a marine aquarium installer/maintainer (so I know a little about keeping fish) but I still have to ask where to buy them sometimes. I phone up the suppliers and ask if they have so and so and such and such and they say yes or no or maybe they can order them in etc... Knowing about them and knowing where to buy them are not the same thing.

I think the same principle applies to solo diving. If you have to come and ask what kind of redundant gear is needed to go solo diving, then it shows you do not know much about diving, let alone solo diving.

Wow, not a lot of assumptions there. There is a lot of discussion revolving around redundant air sources. From doubles to independent twins to K valves to ponies. From ponies the discussion revolves around back mount or side slung, valve on or valve off, reg clipped to D ring or bungied to tank. Maybe I'm slow but... if one never initially asks the question how does one know? I dive with a 5' long hose and bungied secondary. No one I dive with uses that configuration. I learned all about it on SB and I haven't died (yet).

Also if you need to ask whether you are up to solo diving, then it shows you do not know your own limits.

Or it could mean that one has been inundated by the fear/taboo of soloing and can't objectively discuss it in any other setting. Having found this setting one shakes the BS from their head and asks the question. Why automatically assume they know nothing? Perhaps the OP is an idiot or perhaps he is the next J. Cousteau. I don't know so I just stick with how to solo (positive action) and let him figure himself out.

How will one ever get their foot wet if one doesn't touch the water.

 

[Sas]

There are exceptions to most rules. Perhaps the OP is one of them, I have no idea and neither do others. He does not have much experience diving and *most* people are not ready for solo diving with 30 dives. Most times nothing goes wrong when diving, sometimes it does. Those with more experience usually handle it better. Again there are exceptions. When my regular buddy is not around, often I buddy with people with similarly experienced to the OP. I consider myself to be pretty much on my own in these cases, given some of the things that have occurred due to their inexperience. Again, there are exceptions to this but not many in my experience.

Also there is a vast difference between asking a general question 'what redundant gear do I need to solo dive?' and asking more specific questions like you have mentioned. One shows no understanding of redundancy, the other shows some. Also I would never ask a bunch of strangers if they thought I was ready, how would they know? Why do I care what they think? Anyway, I was offering my own perspective from one who has just started solo diving and the things I thought about before doing so. YMMV

Really, why is this thread even in this forum? http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/1802608-post3.html This would imply that these kinds of questions are not in the spirit on the forum. I only joined here a few days ago so maybe I am not up with what is the go here and things might have changed since that post. But I didn't expect to join here and find posts about people asking if they should solo dive. Actually, I probably should have kept my mouth shut on this topic given what I read about the purpose of this forum.

P.S. Caudates are not fish, btw. The comparison is not a good one I feel.

 

[kindaeasy]

No offense but.. what a lot of hooey. When the worst dive happens you probably die. While I agree that you have to come to terms with the fact you might die, imo "you will probably die" is a poor mind set for a solo diver.

Every diver that takes personal responsibility for their actions ought to have accepted that possibility. Of course we do.

What happens to a well trained, team oriented cave diver or a tech diver with serious deco obligation when they pass out? Short of a medical problem (including blacking/passing out) a solo divers goal, if you will, should be to solve problems where/when they happen. IMO needing to surface to solve your problems may get you killed, being able to work through them at depth could save your ass.

We are not talking about tech or cave diving

It is the great lie we tell ourselves that we can solve every problem, every time. I don't think so...again short of a medical issue, that I can not control, it is my goal as a solo diver to be able to solve anything I need to in order to survive the dive I'm doing. If I don't feel that I can...I either don't dive, or evaluate the risk/reward of the dive.

Soloing is just another aspect of the sport like caving and technical diving, nothing more. There are risks... and there are rewards. You don't have to be a Jedi knight to begin learning, just able to use common sense. True, but I don't follow your point? Are you saying newly certified o/w divers are ready to solo? Or with proper training (like cave and tech divers get) any diver can be ready to solo? I'm not sure what you are saying?

and it's a hell of a lot easier to get killed skydiving but you start soloing after jump 8 or 10 and hang gliders are taught to solo from the get go. I wouldn't know, I'm scared of heights, so I don't partake in those sorts of crazy "sports"?

What's the difference? Seems the difference is quite clear, sky divers and hand gliders (is that the right word) are both trained to do what they do solo from the beginning. I know of no o/w class that is taught in such a way as to train new divers to be independent and self sufficient much less to dive solo. If there was such a class I would much rather teach it, than the buddy dependent crap that is currently taught.

In those sports adults are treated like adults who can make up their own minds regarding risk/reward. Why do we assume in diving that adults can't be trusted to do the same thing? The OP was obviously having a hard time deciding for himself, and sought the advice of people who have had to make the same decision, some of us long long ago. I didn't assume a damn thing. I'm just giving a fellow diver, who reminds me of me 15 years ago, my perspective with the obvious advantage of hindsight, something he doesn't have yet, and may not for maybe a couple of hundred more dives.

I know we all want to feel special but diving isn't that "mystical". My point, which I thought was blatantly obvious, is that for someone equally trained in diving and backpacking...walk in the woods is generally safer than diving. For someone barely trained in diving like the OP (no offense OP), even more so.

I may come off sounding cavalier about safety concerns but I'm not. I'm a very conservative diver and attentive to the safety of others when diving in a group but I respect other peoples abilities to think for themselves and who follow their own paths. As do I, did I say something you took otherwise?

Maybe it is fortune cookie thinking but my heroes/role models have always been men who thought that way and I have tried to model my behavior after them. Great.

My comments in bold

 

[kindaeasy]

What a load of CRAP! There are many, many things that might happen while diving and many of them have no solution. You are simply dead or seriously injured. Having a buddy, a lot of gear and/or experience may make little or no difference in outcome. Short of things that are just as likely to kill you in your sleep (ie a heart attack), what are you talking about? What diving exclusive problems would proper gear and experience not at least increase your chances of survival?

I get a laugh out of this attitude. We steal our fun underwater and need to recognize that every single time we stick our heads underwater we may not be coming back. We can NOT dominat the ocean, we simply try to get away with as much as we dare for as long as we dare, but there will always be risks that are unavoidable. What exactly are we supposed to take from these two sentence?

My comments in bold.

 

[DaleC]

The post you indicated is just someones opinion and in my opinion wrong. This is the correct forum for asking those questions. What do you think the answer will be if someone posts such a question in the new diver or basic scuba discussion forums?

:shocked2:

If someone wants to know if cave diving is for them do they post there or in the cave diving sub forum?
If someone wants to know if DIR technical diving is for them do they post there or in the DIR sub forum?
If someone wants to know if commercial diving is for them do they do it there or the commercial diving sub forum?
Etc.. etc.. etc..

Again, this all goes back to the taboo of soloing. All of the above (not DIR but technical diving in general) aspects of diving are more inherently dangerous than recreational soloing but nobody says boo about them. If someone wants to go down that route they are just given the facts. Here's how we do it. Why not the same here in the solo sub forum. What is so different about soloing?
The reason I challenge dive counts is that they are artificial. What do they tell us? I have about 50 low vis, cold water dives, 1/3 of them solo. How does that stack up against 100 warm water, high vis, DM guided tropical boat dives? Who is better prepared to solo and where? If we want to operate safely we should focus on what we actually need to know/do/understand, the specifics. Not some vague notion of experiences that might come to us in time somehow.

PS. My first solo was dive 21 and I'm not dead (yet).