The Self Sufficient Diver...

[dkktsunami]

I totally agree with this concept. Two self-sufficient divers,diving together, are preferable to two "buddy dependent" divers. If you can solve most of your own problems, or avoid problems through solid planning, then you are of less risk to a buddy that you may have, and probably better equipped to help him/her if necessary.

 

[tomboyy]

So you've never really had good experiences with buddies, but you usually dive with instabuddies. Do you see a correlation here?

Ditch the "irregular" buddy too -- sounds like an accident waiting to happen if you worry about him as much as the instabuddies.

yes I see the correlation. is this a "value-added" post? are you going to be my dive "buddy"

My last 4 dives i was partnered with my LDS owner... this was a paid for dive. he knew the area better than me.. he lead and I was at his side... I could reach out and grab him at all times... I consider this a buddy.

that being said guys... I'm sitting outside typing this on a new laptop w/ a new wireless router grilling t-bones and ribeyes by the pool

 

[Puffer Fish]

Yea, I've had the spring break that holds the lever up on the second stage (metal flaw in the spring material)... go thru a lot of gas, very fast.

And had the float apart regulator (DM dropped a tank on the second stage between dives and forgot to mention it)...

In both cases, my budy was of very little value. On the uncontrolled freeflow, he actually swam away from me... it scared him.

I have a pony, but only carry it on very specific dives... not that worried on a 60 ft reef dive.


Shadragon, your point on the primary safety being yourself is very valid. As it is pretty obvious that most divers seem to forget about safety very quickly.

Would take a major change in how training was done...
Regarding safety gear... it seems to have been lost with short classes, but in my humble view, should be covered.

You can OOA for other reasons other than crap gas management too - regs can free, freeflow and occasionally even fall apart.

My view is every diver should go into the water equipped to go solo. That means whatever happens they are capable of self-rescue without having to blindly rely on a 3rd party to get them out of trouble.

If you are sure you can safely perform bolt 'n' pray from 20m depth then for no stop, no overhead 20m dives leave the pony. If you aren't sure you can then take one and so on.

Id like to see training moved on from over-reliance on a buddy (who is an unpredictable human who might or might not react sensible in all situations) to self-rescue.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Well, he did ask a question and provided a suggestion..so it was somewhat value-added. Was not delivered in a very friendly tone.. but it was far better than most of his posts.

There exists a very strange relationship in diving with the concept of the buddy. First off, during OW, an intructor takes someone out for their first dive. The student is obviously covered, but what of the instructor? I know, the instructor has some magic form of protection. Even in the DIR world.. they have to start at some point, and that first dive, they are obviously not competent.

(thankfully, the great lord of diving has arranged that events will only happen after everyone is trained...)

I dive with insta-buddies all the time...some are great, some average, and some really suck. Most are a bit better than your first time student, though.

Only rule I have is that I don't dive with the ones that suck ever again.

I am of the "take care of yourself first" rule of diving, and would hope I never need one, but there are events that only a buddy could save you...

yes I see the correlation. is this a "value-added" post? are you going to be my dive "buddy"

My last 4 dives i was partnered with my LDS owner... this was a paid for dive. he knew the area better than me.. he lead and I was at his side... I could reach out and grab him at all times... I consider this a buddy.

that being said guys... I'm sitting outside typing this on a new laptop w/ a new wireless router grilling t-bones and ribeyes by the pool

 

[mrfixitchapman]

Reviewing my dive log books reminds me of how many times my instabuddy has disappeared or needed assistance from me on dives. When vis goes whack or current goes zoom in the middle of the dive every diver might, by default, become self-reliant. Plan it that way. Then any buddy is a bonus. I have had free-flows and gear failures at depth in nasty conditions. You had better be prepared to save yourself. If your buddy is actually there and will help, you win. If you find yourself in the ocean by yourself, you must be ready to win because of your plan and actions.

My 2 psi.

DC

 

[Pearldiver07]

that being said guys... I'm sitting outside typing this on a new laptop w/ a new wireless router grilling t-bones and ribeyes by the pool

Now that's just wrong - unless you have one on for everybody - your remember your grade school warning when someone was caught chewed gum.

 

[TSandM]

In both cases, my budy was of very little value. On the uncontrolled freeflow, he actually swam away from me... it scared him.

I'm sad to read this.

My first underwater unpleasantness (Diver0001 taught me not to call it an emergency) was a freeflow I couldn't get stopped. As I was trying, and really before the magnitude of the problem had hit me, I had TWO regulators in front of me. I was on someone's long hose, with the third team member shutting down my valve, as soon as I began to get apprehensive about what was happening.

Configuring your setup and procedures as dependent on a buddy for backup ONLY works if you are diving with buddies who can be relied upon. I have said before, and will say again, that some kind of self-rescue is probably necessary if you dive with random buddies. But there is a whole wonderful world out there of reliable, trained people. I do not doubt the ability of my teammates to provide my backup.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

I have been thinking about this for some time. The more I dive, the more I am convinced that a paradigm shift needs to be made in the way recreational OW divers are both equipped and trained. Traditional training says if you get in trouble "Look to your buddy". OK, not a bad thing necessarily and I am not saying we abandon the Buddy System as it has many advantages when it works. The problem is you end up reliant on the other person maybe even dependant in many cases. It is a solution that works as long as you have a buddy in the neighborhood or one even willing to help. However, the insta-buddy phenomena exists and you never know what you are going to get in the buddy lottery.

So let's reduce the importance of the buddy initially. Let's get Joe or Jill diver to the point where they can handle 95%+ of the issues and gear failures without a buddies assistance. We can still have the buddy around for insurance, but even if they disappear completely the diver is still confident and has a very good chance of getting to the surface safely on their own merits.

Essentially I am saying let us look at the training and equipment most OW divers get and see what we can do to improve it. Let's concentrate on two major problem areas.

LOA / OOA - According to DAN most people get serious injuries (DCS and AGE lung over expansion) when trying to get to the surface in a CESA because of a LOA or OOA situation. The 'standard' solution in those cases is the OCTO from your buddy. To be clear, today's dive injuries are happening under the current buddy system. The well oiled buddy team in perfect sync with each other is an exception rather than a rule. How many stories have you seen of LOA/OOA situations where one guy says, "had to CESA because my buddy was too far away to reach and he wasn't looking at me."? OK, in that situation you don't have a buddy and this is where my point comes in. Low viz, complacency, currents and underwater features like reefs and wrecks continually conspire to separate buddies all the time. With Murphy's Law in full swing, bad things always happen at the worse time. If Diver A can handle the LOA/OOA situation by themselves then if there is a buddy separation, a slow and controlled ascent can be done and it does not result in injury.

How? Pony bottle. Yes, there are Spare Airs and doubles on either side of that solution and they are in no way invalid. Something is better than nothing. A Pony or Bailout Bottle is designed for one purpose: Getting a REC diver to the surface (Or at least a lot shallower than they would ordinarily be). Pony size would depend on the depth or dive profile. Doubles are for more technical profiles requiring speciality training and are overkill for OW divers in this example. Give an OW diver more gas and you are just delaying the problem. Then they do get into trouble they are probably in a DECO situation doing a CESA which complicates things more, not less. Training could be simplified to the point of "Once you or your buddy are on your Pony, the dive ends..." Why? That is exactly what they say today about OCTO's. Replace one word with the other. Done...

A Pony with reg and second stage would allow a fully redundant system that can get a rec diver safely to the surface. A simple reg and bottle could be gotten for what, $200 or so? How many chamber rides, DCS hits and lung injury cases could be avoided if everyone had a bailout bottle? Another benefit: Now if your pony equipped buddy is in a LOA/OOA you don't have a wild eyed diver trying to claw your reg out of your mouth.

Now the paradigm shift. Responsibility must be placed squarely on the individual diver. They should be told that if you are in a LOA / OOA situation it is because YOU screwed up. You went too deep, didn't monitor your air, whatever. At the end of the day, your safety rests on your shoulders. Logically, if you got yourself into that situation then you should get yourself out of it. ...and that is the way they should handle it. Current training does not cover this (by standard) and they say if you are OOA go to your buddy. The buddy should become option number 2 with the onus on you as option #1. This lets a new diver know that they are in charge of their own destiny. Just because your new buddy Joe goes deeper and stays longer does not mean you are under an obligation to stay with him until you are OOA. Today the agencies simply say "stick with your buddy". How about "stick with your buddy until you reach the point where you have to leave to make a safe ascent to guarantee your own personal safety." Remember ~85% of divers only get the OW rating and never progress beyond that.

Basic Safety Gear - What does an OW diver truly need? Well, it depends on the conditions and water temp obviously for exposure suits, boots, etc. You cannot duplicate everything without complications and cost. However, can we distill their needs down to a bare list to handle issues? I think so.

How about: Whistle or air horn, time-piece, SMB (reel optional, but nice to have for free ascent SS), knife (X2 - primary and backup), flashlight (X2 - primary and backup) and mirror. Would cost under $200 for all that, but give a lot more chances of survival if things go wrong. These are minimums, by the way. Not saying you cannot carry other things or more lights, strobes, EPIRB, etc.

The key, in my mind at least, is to teach the diver to be self-reliant first wherever possible. Build redundancy into their gear as soon as practicable and let them know that responsibility and personal safety comes from them and not some faceless buddy.

To be clear, a Pony is not a substitute for proper gas management. In a perfect world they would never be needed. However, the DAN stats show that the current system is failing to protect divers. Like the introduction of the OCTO and NITROX, I think the time for Pony promotion is here...

So what do you think?

I'm not sure from where, or maybe from when, your getting the idea that current training makes reliance on your buddy when you have a problem, emergency or other, the preferred method. I can't speak to the training of any other certifying agency but PADI, and being fresh out of PADI's OW course I can certainly tell you that relying first on a buddy to help you in an emergency is not the teaching paradigm. Having a buddy is just one more layer of safety. In fact the only time you do anything with a buddy in the PADI OW course that deals with a problem is when you have to demonstrate you can give or use an alternate air source and ascend that way. Everything else, from finding and clearing your mask to entanglements to free flowing regulators is an individual event. Even in a LOA/OOA situation your taught that your first choice has nothing to do with a buddy. In Padi you're taught five different methods for dealing with a LOA/OOA situation and only 2 of those involve a buddy with one of the buddy techniques highly frowned upon without a lot more training (buddy breathing). They teach you your first option is to make a normal ascent. If that's not possible and your buddy is right next to you, get a reg from them. If your buddy is not next to you, you need to make a CESA. The fourth and not really preferred method is to buddy breath if for some reason your buddy's primary or safe-second decides to malfunction at the same time you are OOA. And the last and least preferred method, for the obvious health dangers, is to make a Buoyant Emergency Ascent. Also, the list of equipment that PADI recommends, which includes some basic safety gear is for each diver, not if your buddy has one you don't need it. Again, the buddy system is simply another layer of safety and the skills you're taught are how to fix the problem yourself. On the bright side, if you do have an emergency, you've got the rest of your life to figure out how to fix it.

Now I'm not looking to scrape anyones scales here, but if you're getting stuck with an insta-buddy that believes you're his/her first option in an emergency, then they obviously missed the meat and potatoes of the course and went straight for the after dinner booze. And lets not forget one of the boards favorite responses to the question "which certifying agency is the best?". . ."It's not the agency it's the instructor!" Maybe a few instructors out there are doing check-out dives in a drink glass.

 

[Web Monkey]

Now I'm not looking to scrape anyones scales here, but if you're getting stuck with an insta-buddy that believes you're his/her first option in an emergency, then they obviously missed the meat and potatoes of the course and went straight for the after dinner booze. And lets not forget one of the boards favorite responses to the question "which certifying agency is the best?". . ."It's not the agency it's the instructor!" Maybe a few instructors out there are doing check-out dives in a drink glass.

At recreational depths, well within the NDL, it's actually pretty difficult to get hurt while ending a dive using any of the "go for the surface" methods taught in your OW class. You might get bent, you might get some sort of barotrauma, but you'll probably be alive.

If you have a good buddy who has actually done some gas planning and knows how to share air, if you manage to run out, sharing with your buddy becomes a non-issue, and is much safer than bolting for the surface.

If you have a poorly trained buddy, sharing air may result in a double fatality, which would explain why PADI doesn't recommend it (I'm taking your word on this, since I do not have access to PADI's standards).

Terry

 

[WarrenZ]

While I appreciate all the thoughts about the propper budy technique and good gas planning. I very rarely find myself instabuddied with a person who I feel confident with in the water they may be very experienced but in the end I dont know them enough not to wonder if they will even be able to tell if they are out of air let alone if I rupture an o-ring and start loosing gas.

I always carry at least a bailout bottle when I dive especially when I am diving with an instabuddy and the only dive briefing is "Last one back on the boat buys the first round of drinks".