The real world vs. training.

[2airishuman]

I recently spent several days diving in the Florida Keys, my first dives since completing my OWD certification. I dove with a number of different charter operators, all boat dives, and had a great time. The dives were all shallow (<25'), and the boats were not "cattle boats," no more than 8 divers.

Several things stuck out as being in conflict with my training, generally across all operators:

1) Divers were generally not paired up in buddy groups, rather, anyone who did not arrive with a buddy (or specifically seeking a solo dive) dove in a group of 4-6 people including a DM.

2) There was no discussion of OOA procedures (e.g. primary donate vs. octo). On the occasions when I initiated such a discussion, the shallow nature of the dive and the immediate proximity of the surface were pointed out to me in response.

3) Few divers (other than the DMs) had surface signalling gear, such as a mirror, whistle, or safety sausage. None of the rental gear I saw appeared to include these items (unless it was hidden in a pocket somewhere).

4) I did not observe any cross-checking of predive procedures going on (BWRAF), although DMs were watching out for obvious problems and giving out reminders.

My question is whether this sort of thing is specific to the shallow reef dives so common in the keys or something more widespread.

 

[Reelman1]

OK, I'll respond... Unfortunately, what you observed is all too common...I've been on trips where those of us who insist on observing safety protocols have been regarded as "odd"...I think it's like motorcycles... there are riders who have gone down, and there are riders who haven't (yet)...the attitudes are quite different. Stick to your guns on this stuff, insist on not diving until and unless you are comfortable with the safety aspect... it's your life, after all... the good news is that the more advanced folks tend to take this stuff quite seriously...I will be very interested to see how everyone else responds...

 

[doctormike]

I recently spent several days diving in the Florida Keys, my first dives since completing my OWD certification. I dove with a number of different charter operators, all boat dives, and had a great time. The dives were all shallow (<25'), and the boats were not "cattle boats," no more than 8 divers.

Several things stuck out as being in conflict with my training, generally across all operators:

1) Divers were generally not paired up in buddy groups, rather, anyone who did not arrive with a buddy (or specifically seeking a solo dive) dove in a group of 4-6 people including a DM.

Yeah, I don't like that, and I have seen that occasionally. I'm assuming that we are talking about basic OW divers being assigned instabuddies, right? Unless buddy pairs are explicit, it's easy for one of the crowd to get lost, and then it's on the DM to make sure that all six are OK.

2) There was no discussion of OOA procedures (e.g. primary donate vs. octo). On the occasions when I initiated such a discussion, the shallow nature of the dive and the immediate proximity of the surface were pointed out to me in response.

I don't think that discussion is very common or vital for that matter. In a real OOA situation, the diver will probably just grab your primary no matter what the discussion was ahead of time, but you should be prepared for either and not panic. Also, at 25 FSW, most people would probably just ascend.

3) Few divers (other than the DMs) had surface signalling gear, such as a mirror, whistle, or safety sausage. None of the rental gear I saw appeared to include these items (unless it was hidden in a pocket somewhere).

Yeah, that's probably pretty common. Suboptimal, but common. Always a good idea to have something like that...

4) I did not observe any cross-checking of predive procedures going on (BWRAF), although DMs were watching out for obvious problems and giving out reminders.

I don't think that I have ever seen that done, actually. Not saying that people don't do it, I just haven't seen it.

 

[decompression]

This is why instructors stress that divers are incharge of themselves, a lot of ops are there just as a taxi service. It's up to you to do all the things to keep you safe and have fun.

 

[Edward3c]

…
I don't think that discussion is very common or vital for that matter. In a real OOA situation, the diver will probably just grab your primary no matter what the discussion was ahead of time, but you should be prepared for either and not panic.
...

The incident reports don't support your statement. OOA (OOG = Out Of Gas) tend to do as trained.

 

[RandomGuy1]

My own experiences are similar to yours. I recently did some dives that were in the 70-90ft range and drift dives. I mentioned not having a buddy and asked on the boat if anyone would mind buddying up. I was surprised at the looks that I got. The DM pretty much said everyone just kind of stays in the group. I wasn't too comfortable with that, but I know my gear and that it is well maintained, and that I have a good handle on the amount of air that I use, and I religiously check my spg. My biggest concern was not being picked up by the boat. I also made sure to stay near someone the entire time, although I am sure that there were times when I was far enough away from anyone that if I had an OOG incident I would have been in trouble. This is one of the reasons that in the future I will have a redundant air supply with me.

 

[fjpatrum]

Yeah, I don't like that, and I have seen that occasionally. I'm assuming that we are talking about basic OW divers being assigned instabuddies, right? Unless buddy pairs are explicit, it's easy for one of the crowd to get lost, and then it's on the DM to make sure that all six are OK.


I don't think that discussion is very common or vital for that matter. In a real OOA situation, the diver will probably just grab your primary no matter what the discussion was ahead of time, but you should be prepared for either and not panic. Also, at 25 FSW, most people would probably just ascend.

I think vitality of this is going to depend a lot more on whether you're buddied up and whether or not you're using "standard" gear. I always make sure my buddy understands my gear because my rig looks a lot different than a standard vest BC with reg set.

 

[scubadada]

My own experiences are similar to yours. I recently did some dives that were in the 70-90ft range and drift dives. I mentioned not having a buddy and asked on the boat if anyone would mind buddying up. I was surprised at the looks that I got. The DM pretty much said everyone just kind of stays in the group. I wasn't too comfortable with that, but I know my gear and that it is well maintained, and that I have a good handle on the amount of air that I use, and I religiously check my spg. My biggest concern was not being picked up by the boat. I also made sure to stay near someone the entire time, although I am sure that there were times when I was far enough away from anyone that if I had an OOG incident I would have been in trouble. This is one of the reasons that in the future I will have a redundant air supply with me.

This sounds a lot like the drift dives in Jupiter, FL. You have your choice of staying with and ascending with the DM or ascending on your own with a SMB. This system works very well.

 

[RandomGuy1]

This sounds a lot like the drift dives in Jupiter, FL. You have your choice of staying with and ascending with the DM or ascending on your own with a SMB. This system works very well.

That is exactly where it was at.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I pretty much never see any of that predive stuff executed before a dive. Get a pony bottle if it is too deep to easily swim up. Trying to impose all the safety stuff on a bunch of ill trained tourists or experienced locals will just make everyone think you are a dork.

Telling everyone to stay in a group is not buddy diving. Everyone thinks everyone is watching them, but they are watching nobody.

I dive with an air 2 and make a point to tell people to take my primary if they want air and get strange looks.,...even for that.