The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Kingpatzer]

In order to resolve this I have begun a poll - let democracy prevail!

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/325647-do-you-dive-locally.html

Do you really think the members of this board in any way represent average divers?

 

[Kingpatzer]

And the 70% that drop out after OW? Collateral damage??

For the 70% that dive a few times in their life on vacation, PADI OW is entirely sufficient.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'm talking, specifically, about new, OW divers. The biggest chain in our area is a PADI facility, with eight locations throughout Puget Sound, cranking out new OW divers every week-end. The vast majority of those people continue to dive locally once they are certified.

Your dive sites must be quite packed. If they turn out 6 divers a weekend per location, that's 2400 a year assuming each store gets a 2 week break. If they keep diving locally, and they've been around for 10 years, that's 24,000 mostly active divers in the local water up there just from the PADI stores.

That, frankly, would be rather astounding to me.

I realize getting the numbers would be rather difficult, but I honestly wonder what the return rate for AOW and rescue are for those PADI shops. I wonder how many unique rentals and fills for local dives they see each month. I would be willing to bet a pretty hefty sum that the number of active local divers isn't as high as you might imagine. If it topped 40% that would be a major success for those shops.

I'm sure that living in that area the number of divers who continue to dive is higher than the middle of the upper mid-west. But the Great Lakes are also wreck diving heaven, so it's not like the diving here is horrible.

 

[Crush]

Do you really think the members of this board in any way represent average divers?

Why don't you look at the primary source to see if I put any caveats on it (hint: I did). Check out the post. It is only one click away (left click).

 

[Crush]

No, but primarily.

...

If all we served were local divers, probably 2/3rds of the shops here would close.

While I cannot comment on your particular dive shop(s), the contention that most divers dive at holiday destinations is being spanked handily by a non-statistically representative survey on SB - see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/325647-do-you-dive-locally.html .

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

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Carolyn:shark2:

 

[Kingpatzer]

being spanked handily by a non-statistically representative survey on SB - see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/325647-do-you-dive-locally.html .

Did you really expect anything else?

As you note, it's non-representative. Shall we count the ways? There are at least three points that to me are clearly going to skew the results highly in favor of local diving.

1) It is being answered only by those who who are members of Scubaboard, which means by definition it is a self-selecting population with a high enough interest in scuba diving that they are members of the board.
2) It is being answered by people who on average have a very high number of dives compared to what industry analysts contend the average scuba diver makes
3) It is self-selecting for those who choose to answer the survey from those who are scuba board members.

It is a meaningless exercise and does nothing to either support or refute your argument.

 

[Cave Diver]

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Carolyn:shark2:

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[Walter]

Thank you!

Going in and editing my post to insert links and to correct post numbers was above and beyond the call of duty. Kudos to you both!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Your dive sites must be quite packed. If they turn out 6 divers a weekend per location, that's 2400 a year assuming each store gets a 2 week break. If they keep diving locally, and they've been around for 10 years, that's 24,000 mostly active divers in the local water up there just from the PADI stores.

Well, you're forgetting the 70+% dropout rate in this activity, which ... to my concern ... has a great deal to do with the fact that most entry-level divers are insufficiently trained to feel comfortable participating in diving once they're certified.

However, to address your comment, as a matter of fact, one of the biggest problems with diving locally during the warmer months is that the dive sites are typically so crowded it's difficult to find a parking spot. You often have to just sit and wait for one to open up. Even during the winter months a nice week-end, like we had recently, will bring out divers in droves.

That, frankly, would be rather astounding to me.

Clearly ...

I realize getting the numbers would be rather difficult, but I honestly wonder what the return rate for AOW and rescue are for those PADI shops. I wonder how many unique rentals and fills for local dives they see each month. I would be willing to bet a pretty hefty sum that the number of active local divers isn't as high as you might imagine. If it topped 40% that would be a major success for those shops.

Once you subtract the dropouts, it would be much higher than 40% ... probably closer to double that. Dive shops in our area tend to go through cycles, with some shops closing, others opening, and some doing much better than others. But overall there's enough diving here to support about two dozen dive shops within the 60 miles or so between Olympia and Seattle. Those shops couldn't exist by simply cranking out vacation divers.

I'm sure that living in that area the number of divers who continue to dive is higher than the middle of the upper mid-west. But the Great Lakes are also wreck diving heaven, so it's not like the diving here is horrible.

Of course not ... but the diving there is seasonal. Here it's year-round. And wreck-diving is a special type of diving that requires a lot of training, gear and dedication. Here the majority of our diving is from shore, with a variety that can accommodate lots of interests from the entry level diver to the deep wreck or wall diver. In fact, we have dive parks here ... one in particular that's designed almost specifically for the entry-level divers with about 30 acres of attractions in anywhere from 15 to 40 feet of water.

Frankly, King ... until you travel around a bit and develop an understanding of the differences in local conditions between different regions around the country, I don't think you really know what you're talking about. By your own admission, you've "seen" the north Atlantic once. Have you ever been to California? Dived there? Florida? Dived there? Pacific Northwest? Dived there? Hawaii? Dived there? Those four places alone each present their own unique attractions and challenges ... and learning to dive in any one of them won't necessarily qualify you to dive in the others.

Relating this back to the topic, a cookie-cutter approach to dive training simply doesn't accommodate those differences. By their own language, PADI and every other agency claims to be training people to dive in "conditions similar to those in which they were trained".

That doesn't square with your claims as to the intent of the PADI program. In fact, I don't think even the good folks at PADI would agree with what you are saying ... at least, I think they would prefer not to.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)