The Observer Effect?

[RainPilot]

Why not?

Ever seen a manatee with gloves?

 

[Steve_C]

Ever seen a manatee with gloves?

Manatee: Fin consists of a thick layer of fat covered with a tough hide.
Me: thin layer of muscle covered by a very thin layer of skin loaded with sensors.

Manatee: Dies if water stays in the lwo 60s
Me: Goes diving in the 50s and sometimes below

Manatee: Floats around eating grass on the bottom. Avoids wrecks and reefs as far as I can see.
Me: Does not eat or smoke grass. Seeks out wrecks and reefs.

Not at all clear that a jelly can even sting a manatee. The needles are very short.

 

[The Chairman]

Why not?

I don't like them and I feel they are a crutch. My palms itch in cold water for a few moments and then I'm fine. I get in trouble if my feet ever get cold, but my hands seem to do fine.

Ever seen a manatee with gloves?

You're killing me, Smalls.

Manatee:

Steve, it's in reference to a self deprecating joke I often tell because I rarely wear a wetsuit, even in water down to 66F: "When you're built like manatee, you get to dive like one."

 

[Steve_C]

To each their own. I go with physics. Blood vessels close to the skin result in increased heat loss. For longer low effort dives in cold water all heat loss is heat loss and that adds up. I agree cold feet bothers me more than cold hands.

 

[TMHeimer]

All human interaction has an affect on the "natural world". That is because we are part of that natural road. We cut down trees. Beavers build dams, flood valleys and kill trees. Why is the beaver altering it's environment for a home any different than the animal man altering its environment for a home. There is a world and the creatures in it do stuff. Cancer is natural. It may want to make a home in me. I will try to stop it. I am not saying that we should not try to reduce our impact to a reasonable extent. If you let a farm revert to nature it will eventually turn into a mature forests which has less biodiversity than a mixture of meadows, wood margins, and woods. If man were to disappear tomorrow there would eventually be a major die off of pigeons and house sparrows who rely on us for habitat.

The ultimate bottom line is that either
a) we have an advanced technology and all that means or
b) another big asteroid will knock out all the critters and stuff we know and love sometime in the future.

Probability one.

Agree with all this. I guess the trick is to get all our technology going with no (or very minimal) effect on what it'd be like with no humans. I think most know this. Hey, they solved all that on Star Trek.
There are those who say that when we dive (or do anything in the water) we are merely visitors where others live. I dunno. If we have the ability to go down there it's just as much our world. But we don't want to overdue it with all our fancy technology--same thing as on land.
Back to gloves: I would be fine cold-wise without gloves when (if) our Aug. water gets UP to 66. But I'd still wear at least "reef" gloves for the protection. We usually top out at 60, but a few years ago I did see 68 during an OW course. Bunch of lucky students.

 

[AdivingBel]

I wear gloves when I dive in the Keys because of wrecks, mooring lines, & jellies. If I dive somewhere "no gloves" is mandatory, I follow the rules and don't wear gloves. I will ask the DM to "look the other way" if we're diving a wreck because I hate tearing my hands up on mooring lines (mainly embedded fish hooks). If he says nope, I don't wear 'em. If the "no gloves" rules actually protect the reef...great. I don't touch the reef either way.

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind wearing gloves in Bonaire as I usually face plant once per trip. At least I wouldn't cut up my hands, but it's O.K. 'cause chicks dig scars (as long as they didn't see the face plant ).

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I teach that gloves are the first symptom of bad planning and buoyancy.

Obviously wreck penetration is different but I never allow gloves on OW dives ever.

I wish we could do that here. I hate my 5 mil gloves as I find a big lack of dexterity for me. I have never been big on gloves even when I was a professional high rise window cleaner in the middle of an Ohio winter,

Hmm, maybe I will go sans gloves for my next dive and see how that works out for me.

 

[TMHeimer]

This time of year (49F last week) I still wear the 3 fingered "lobster claws". For my purposes I don't find lack of dexterity a problem. Though last week I unbelievably forgot to clip my consul and had to remove one to clip it while in the water. Those mitts gotta be as good as drysuit gloves--no problems even in water in the 30s. But feet do get cold.

 

[tilikum]

Humans aren't part of the natural world. We are conquerers and destroyers of it. We bend nature to our whims and drive other species to extinction. Once we evolved past hunter gatherer status and primitive tool making, we started shaping the world in a very unnatural fashion.

 

[Joneill]

Humans aren't part of the natural world. We are conquerers and destroyers of it. We bend nature to our whims and drive other species to extinction. Once we evolved past hunter gatherer status and primitive tool making, we started shaping the world in a very unnatural fashion.

That's a little silly - humans are just another species and absolutey part of the natural world.

Further, man's evolution beyond hunter gatherer was also part of a natural process.

Do we always make the best choices for the planet? Absolutely not - but we are just as much a part of the natural world as any other species (many of which can be quite dangerous/destructive to other species, btw).