The LDS of the future

[Jax]

You know, this tread started out as something that might be helpful providing an insight as to where the industry was -or should be - going, but instead has turned out to be dying - like so many good threads do - by drowning in dribble. I wish you guys could stay on topic.

Excellent!!!

I think one problem with "defining the LDS of the future", is that the location plays a lot more into the definition than what people give credit.

Two fine examples of an LDS of the future:
* Dive Right In Scuba | Plainfield scuba diving lessons and scuba equipment. We also provide scuba certification for the Chicago area. and
* Cave Adventurers | Located on Merritt's Mill Pond, Marianna, FL

These two business have a genuine desire to help the customer, understand that we want to know about a product before dropping the $$$, and have really want to match the gear to the customer, not the customer to the gear. They don't pass judgement, but offer alternatives, and respect your choice. They have a physical presence and an online presence, and offer the online shopper the same care and concern as they do in public.

While I have not run into the "you aren't @@@@ if you don't dive xyz", I have heard enough to understand the irritation it causes.

Now - to location. Take my little town in the desert. The LDS doesn't have the traffic as do some locales. He depends on word-of-mouth, Internet searches, and phone book. He *has* to carry a line, and while he presents what's on hand, he is happy to pull catalogs and discuss needs with people. He doesn't pass judgment, but supports what the customer wants. He will make as much accommodation as possible to support the customer's budget and needs.

(One fellow was buying a lot off craigslist and ebay. LDS helped him tweak and service this old gear. Customer ended up buying new when the old stuff was a bigger PITA than he thought.)



Sounds like all of this is just good business sense, where the customer comes first, and the rest will follow.

 

[Mike]

The best divers I know would happily teach SCUBA for nothing, since they don't rely on diving for income.

The entire concept of SCUBA as an "industry" is deelpy flawed.

There's no reason non-divers couldn't learn how to dive from publicly available materials, and another diver who has managed to not kill himself over the course of a few hundred dives.

flots.

Maybe they would be willing to teach it, but I wouldn't be willing to be taught by them.

I personally don't have time to go and figure out who is qualified and who isn't qualified to teach diving. I'd rather it be easier for me to figure it out, like having somebody who wants to teach at least go through the very basics of being taught a standard method and material, them being tested and certified. At least at that point I know anybody I want to hire should at least be on a similar baseline.

 

[Rich Keller]

(One fellow was buying a lot off craigslist and ebay. LDS helped him tweak and service this old gear. Customer ended up buying new when the old stuff was a bigger PITA than he thought.)



Sounds like all of this is just good business sense, where the customer comes first, and the rest will follow.

+1 Shops like that will always be here. While a new diver starting today could do so without ever setting foot in a LDS there will always be that group that need to do things in person. I have also picked up old Scubapro gear from ebay not just because it was dirt cheep but they are a simpler design so I can do all the service myself without the need for special tools. The people at my LDS are into the same thing so we get along better then other shops I have gone to. Had I known about HOG regs at the time I would have gone that route instead. Reading back I do not think most people here have a problem with the LDS making money its the shops that are gouging people that give the market in general a bad name.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well that's why you make 350.00 a class and i pull 995.00. With your experience you should be in the same ball park... It's not my fault you can't sell it. I'm not a car salesmen, but you could learn a thing or two from one... If you charge it, they will pay. You only devalue yourself, wpbdivegirl is right I'm not competing with you. We don't compete in the same weight class. If it's all for a good cause why don't you go NFP... I'll stick with making good money and providing for my family 100% by doing what I love!

Brendon ... I really don't want this thread to turn into some sort of competition. We teach for different reasons. I don't need to make my money teaching scuba ... I earn a good living doing my day job. My motives for scuba instruction stem from the help I received learning how to be a good diver, and a desire to pass it along to others. What I charge really isn't all that important to me ... the quality of the service I provide is what I want my students to focus on. How much I charge for it is really my decision to make, and theirs to decide whether or not it's worth the price. It's irrelevent to the topic of this thread.

And frankly, I probably spend as much time giving free seminars and mentoring new divers as I do teaching scuba. I don't need the money ... and the value I get out of helping others can't be measured in dollars.

No, we don't "compete in the same weight class" ... we don't "compete" at all. Scuba diving isn't a competition ... neither is scuba instruction.

All the best ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

Sometimes, the best thing an instructor does is serve as an example!

 

[dmoore19]

It seems as though there is no real consensus of what the LDS of the future will be. Could it be because different people prefer different business styles? I contend there will be several different business models. Just as there is now. A single business model will never fit all people in all parts of the scuba world.

 

[redacted]

Sure, except I dont need to go into that here on the board. This line of messaging was directed at someone not my clientele. Point taken though. The latter part of your statement I do day in and day out...

You don't need to but, since you make the pitch day in and day out, doing it here on the board would help lots of people understand the added value they can expect from a scuba course that is 2 to 3 times more expensive than the norm. After all, there are things you have said in this thread that may give some readers the impression you are just looking to hook suckers.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

A scan of OW costs in South Florida shows that the mean cost is $427 with a standard deviation of $67 (n=9). The standard deviation is remarkably small and suggests that competition dives everyone to have more or less the same cost. It is even more remarkable to see someone in this thread claiming that charging 11 sigma above the mean is feasible on a routine basis. There must be something really amazing in that course. Perhaps unicorns act as safety divers. That is just a speculation of course, but I would pay extra to see pelagic unicorns. Maybe not triple though.

 

[Mike]

A scan of OW costs in South Florida shows that the mean cost is $427 with a standard deviation of $67 (n=9). The standard deviation is remarkably small and suggests that competition dives everyone to have more or less the same cost. It is even more remarkable to see someone in this thread claiming that charging 11 sigma above the mean is feasible on a routine basis. There must be something really amazing in that course. Perhaps unicorns act as safety divers. That is just a speculation of course, but I would pay extra to see pelagic unicorns. Maybe not triple though.

Free Market Economy - a competitive market where prices are determined by supply and demand and goods and services are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely based on the mutual consent of an agreeable price between sellers and buyers.

In a free market, if you don't like the price you're able to spend your dollars elsewhere.

And again in regard to your outrage at somebody not pricing a service to your liking - it usually comes down to this -

Pricing for a service usually has a lot to do with the level of service provided and the quality of the service provided.

People who are cheap will argue with you all day long how there is no difference between services offered. Young people often have never experienced the differences yet between a sh*tty experience and a truly marvelous one.

Some people simply will try to go through life pretending that businesses that charge high prices do so only to rip off consumers, instead of acknowledge what they are missing.

Some people want the best experience their money can buy and are willing to pay people who are the best what it takes to experience what they have to offer, others will pretend there is no difference, but they are fooling nobody but themselves.

I will never deny someone who has spent a large part of their life becoming an expert at what they do from earning a premium for sharing their expertese.

The most difficult part for me of being a consumer is trying to find the best. The world is full of mediocrity, filled with the Wal-marts of everything. True craftsmen, people who know their sh*t, people on top of their game, finding a real expert is very difficult, but when I find one, I bask in the experience and pay them what they are worth.

I can only hope the LDS of the future resembles Wal-mart and IKEA less and charges enough to allow people to enter the dive profession and support a family instead of having to enter it as a labor of love.

 

[flots am]

Maybe they would be willing to teach it, but I wouldn't be willing to be taught by them.

That's certainly your call.

I personally don't have time to go and figure out who is qualified and who isn't qualified to teach diving. I'd rather it be easier for me to figure it out, like having somebody who wants to teach at least go through the very basics of being taught a standard method and material, them being tested and certified. At least at that point I know anybody I want to hire should at least be on a similar baseline.

Prospective divers still don't know who will properly cover the material they they need to learn, even with certification agencies. Ditching the agencies wouldn't be a great loss.

With no industry behind SCUBA, only the truly motivated would bother finding and instructor and learning to dive, and they would find out "who is a good instructor" by asking their friends, the same way they find roofers, mechanics and masons.

flots.