The Comparative cost of scuba, including instruction

[bshonesy]

The real question is why scuba hasn't pulled in the same luxury market. I think it's because the barriers to entry are just a bit too high because of the fragmented way we do dive training and travel. A little too much training and a little too difficult to figure out destinations/flights/ops/lodging. The Instagram crowd can get what they want from a DSD at a resort they'll be at anyway without all the additional work.

I guess I’d say that diving has some components that do not appeal to larger luxury market. For one, many people have anxiety from jumping into water with unknowns (they think sharks are going to get them), or anxiety about breathing underwater (at least this one is more reasonable). Then later on to that the fact that the industry is basically the same as it was in the 1990s. Sure you have online course work, but the way dive shops work and market themselves is no different than the 90s in my opinion. People are used to getting everything they need from the internet, when/where is the class, who’s teaching it, what are my options, what equipment do I need how can I order it online, how much is it. I find that by and large dive shops have outdated websites, the prices are not even accurate or kept up with, you have to go down to the store to inquire about courses, I don’t know when/if they are offering a course (for most stores, some exceptions), and the whole thing is just clunky. Meanwhile, if I’m a skier, I can sign up for and pay for everything I want to do online. I can rent equipment ahead and see what that will cost. Also we’re talking about a hobby that involves learning a little science, which I think those of us who love this sport enjoy, but as a scientist myself who frequently gets the eye rolls when I get excited about something nerdy, I fully recognize this science and gear not what everyone finds interesting. So I think it’s kindof a multilayered thing. But I personally am not looking to have to wait in line for 15 min to climb back up the ladder like one does to get on a ski lift, so I’m thinking maybe I don’t want it to be such an enormous thing?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't know anything about what the deal is for used gear in skiing, but I do know something about used diving gear. There is a lot of great used scuba gear coming out of closets, garages, and storage units that has been retired by the first generation of participants to this sport, whether they quit or passed on and either they or their relatives are moving the stuff along. There's also
the phenomenon of people who got into diving as the newest hottest here now thing only for the honeymoon to wear off a few years later and the stuff ends up for sale for pennies on the dollar.
It's up to the receiver to educate themselves about the gear, what is good and what is junk. If they really want to immerse themselves into the hobby, they should learn some history then take up gear service and tinkering. Don't just be a casual participant, get really into it and learn the ins and outs, get into the belly of the sport and thoroughly understand it. One thing I can say about scuba diving and gear is that there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that the industry has created to make it seem way more complicated than it really is. A lot of it is fear tactics that is designed to separate you from your money.
Like I said, not everything has to be brand new and also not everything requires a class.

 

[NothingClever]

I think recreational (non-tech) diving becomes affordable after the initial equipment start up, especially if shore diving is available.

Once we gain experience, there’s usually a second round of costs for training courses and equipment upgrades/replacements and/or trips.

If we add complexities like technical training, DS, extra cylinders, mixed gas and DPVs, the costs start climbing.

However, I think diving is comparatively inexpensive when looked at alongside high performance sportbike riding at a track. I can burn through $100 in fuel and $600 in tires in two days. That doesn’t include just getting onto the track - that’s $175 up to $350. If I crash, I estimate $2000 for repairs to the bike and $700 for repairs to my leathers.

For the MotoAmerica race team I manage, our tire budget is $3000 for three days and $750 in fuel. We pay our mechanic and data analyst $1500 each plus cover their transportation and lodging.

Motorsports costs, whether riding for myself, coaching others or running a race team, make a $20 tip to the DM/guide or a new wetsuit seem pretty affordable.

 

[lowwall]

There is a lot of great used scuba gear coming out of closets, garages, and storage units that has been retired by the first generation of participants to this sport, whether they quit or passed on and either they or their relatives are moving the stuff along. There's also
the phenomenon of people who got into diving as the newest hottest here now thing only for the honeymoon to wear off a few years later and the stuff ends up for sale for pennies on the dollar.

Used regs are usually a bargain and can be made to perform as well as anything new. Fins can be good used buys. If they are not cracked you won't have to do anything except maybe replace the strap. I guess a mask would be OK if it fits. Basic computers are also OK for starting out as long as they are nitrox capable and have user replaceable batteries. The only thing I'd be very cautious about is used soft goods like BCDs and wetsuits (yuck).

FWIW, in skiing there is nothing like the perfectly good 40 or even 20 year old reg. Ski technology went through a big change in shape 25 years ago and no one uses the older style anymore. Skis went through another set of big, although invisible, set of changes over the last 20 years by incorporating new materials like carbon fiber and computer-aided design and stress analysis. The materials in ski boots are expected to wear out within a few years. The result is the used market is pretty much limited to stuff from the last 5 years or so. It also competes for the bargain hunter with remaindered stock since manufacturers make at least small changes each year for marketing purposes. The non-current stuff gets sold cheap through various outlets.

 

[Still Kicking]

I don't know anything about what the deal is for used gear in skiing, but I do know something about used diving gear. There is a lot of great used scuba gear coming out of closets, garages, and storage units that has been retired by the first generation of participants to this sport, whether they quit or passed on and either they or their relatives are moving the stuff along. There's also
the phenomenon of people who got into diving as the newest hottest here now thing only for the honeymoon to wear off a few years later and the stuff ends up for sale for pennies on the dollar.
It's up to the receiver to educate themselves about the gear, what is good and what is junk. If they really want to immerse themselves into the hobby, they should learn some history then take up gear service and tinkering. Don't just be a casual participant, get really into it and learn the ins and outs, get into the belly of the sport and thoroughly understand it. One thing I can say about scuba diving and gear is that there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that the industry has created to make it seem way more complicated than it really is. A lot of it is fear tactics that is designed to separate you from your money.
Like I said, not everything has to be brand new and also not everything requires a class.

The problem with used gear is new divers don't know what they are looking at. Are there great deals on lightly used gear? Absolutely. But you really have to know what's what and pick and choose.

I see it all the time -- "I bought a whole bag of gear for $300, what a deal! Can you service it?" By the time we go through everything and explain what's worn out/doesn't fit/parts not available etc. they have maybe $150 worth of gear if they spend $200 on servicing.

Better to spend that $300 on an entry-level reg with a warranty etc. that will last 20+ years with minimal care.

For example, would you pay the $300 asking price for this?:

 

[Tracy]

I think recreational (non-tech) diving becomes affordable after the initial equipment start up, especially if shore diving is available.

Once we gain experience, there’s usually a second round of costs for training courses and equipment upgrades/replacements and/or trips.

If we add complexities like technical training, DS, extra cylinders, mixed gas and DPVs, the costs start climbing.

However, I think diving is comparatively inexpensive when looked at alongside high performance sportbike riding at a track. I can burn through $100 in fuel and $600 in tires in two days. That doesn’t include just getting onto the track - that’s $175 up to $350. If I crash, I estimate $2000 for repairs to the bike and $700 for repairs to my leathers.

For the MotoAmerica race team I manage, our tire budget is $3000 for three days and $750 in fuel. We pay our mechanic and data analyst $1500 each plus cover their transportation and lodging.

Motorsports costs, whether riding for myself, coaching others or running a race team, make a $20 tip to the DM/guide or a new wetsuit seem pretty affordable.

I used to race WERA and CCS and I wasn't any good. Nobody was sponsoring my slow self. Diving and boating are my cheap hobbies.

 

[broncobowsher]

For example, would you pay the $300 asking price for this?:

View attachment 879224

No.
The computer, firing up with a good display, is probably the highest value I see. Given the vintage of the gear I can see, call it late 90s by the light, it will be an older, very crude computer. Better than the tables, but not by much.

 

[PDodson]

Skiing - Spend too much $$$, strap on some skis, cruise around on the bunny hills, sip on some wine and hot cocoa, wear fancy jackets.

Diving - Spend too much $$$, get on small boats, have snot dripping down your face, have cheap snacks and water.

Obviously skewing it, but I can see how to a lot of people, scuba just isn't a comfy, luxury vibe that is worth the effort. Not as casual friendly from an outside perspective.

My takeaway: More wine on dive boats.

 

[Still Kicking]

No.
The computer, firing up with a good display, is probably the highest value I see. Given the vintage of the gear I can see, call it late 90s by the light, it will be an older, very crude computer. Better than the tables, but not by much.

75+ percent of cobras fire up but fail the pressure test due to a bad sensor so most likely zero value there....

Light will be blown away by cheaper, more convenient lights with rechargable batteries that save $$$ in the long run...

Dacor reg ...no parts available. So sorry.

How is a newbie supposed to know this stuff?

 

[Allen-1]

We get too hung up on gear. Basic gear is reliable and works fine. Skills are more important than gear. But they take way more dedication.

The problem for most new divers, as has been said here, is that we can't tell what's good and what isn't. I can evaluate a used motorcycle, a used car, a used firearm - but I can't tell if a used regulator is a bargain or a POS.

I'm fortunate - my brother donated his backup regulator and dive computer to me after teaching me to dive with them. I trust him. I bought the same mask he lent me because it turns out that I'm a nose breather, and his spare was/is valved and works for me. My wife bought me a BC for a Christmas present after consulting with him, and he recommended the latest version of the BC that I'd rented, was familiar with and was/am happy with.

So, I had my hand held by an experienced diver that I trust, and my gear hasn't cost me an arm and a leg - only a couple of fingers and toes. Most people new to the sport don't get that kind of attention/help; they get the salesperson in the local shop who's potentially pushing the line they need to clear out or have good margins on.