The Aqualung Discussion [ Moved ]

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Storm:
My father often said “you get what you pay for”.

If the customer comes first, then the brand they are looking for is what you should be ordering. The first time a reatiler tries to sell me a "line that they prefer to carry" over the product that I wanted would be the last time I walked into their shop...period.

Maybe that was true in your father's time. Mine used to say "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I like what whitelightenin is saying. Apeks is just one of many excellent regs. If you have got to have Apeks, you will have to shop elsewhere. If you want a high performane reg at a fair price, it looks like he can accomodate.
 
Storm:
And exactly how does getting their dealer license, and thus the ability to provide continued service to their AL clientele, suspended help their AL clientele.
I never suggested it did and neither did Phil. However, he is not posting here to comment because AL threatened to sue him… Phil took a risk in challenging AL’s policies and lost and so did many of us (we lost a great AL dealer). Insight is 20x20 and perhaps if he knew the consequences he would have acted differently. Please remember that this thread is not about Phil, it is about AL policies that customers do not like and want to see changed.

Storm:
There is also the smell of retailer market share protection going on here.
Dive Sports was the ONLY AL dealer in Decatur Alabama (check the AL website there is no other dealer in Decatur) so he has 100% of the market share without even trying. The only competition is Internet dealers, like elsewhere. His market share is based on his outstanding service so it has not changed much and many customers are just switching away from AL to the brands Phil now recommends.

Storm:
Please no not try to quote me US law and then try to convince me that US law protects free markets, and that free markets are the basis of capitalism. I live in Canada. Our trade systems and competition laws are similar.
I only quote US laws because they alone have jurisdiction over business in the US, where they are designed to maintain a free market. I appreciate that you want to contribute to this discussion but please do not change the context from US trade to international or Canadian trade. AL is based in California (sub of Texas Air Liquide, wholly owned by French Air Liquide) and Dive Sports is in Alabama. Both companies do business in states of the US, thus it is US laws like the section 1 of the Sherman Act that apply and not section 45 of the Canadian Competition Act.

Storm:
In the same breath that you would cry against price fixing and in support of free markets, you would also cry about third world manufacturing creating unfair pricing when compared against US based manufacturing. Then you would also cry …
Nothing like cheap stereotypes … actually, I laugh :)
 
homo maris:
I never suggested it did and neither did Phil. However, he is not posting here to comment because AL threatened to sue him… Phil took a risk in challenging AL’s policies and lost and so did many of us (we lost a great AL dealer). Insight is 20x20 and perhaps if he knew the consequences he would have acted differently. Please remember that this thread is not about Phil, it is about AL policies that customers do not like and want to see changed.


Agreed I'll leave Phil out of it. I should have actually taken it to a hypothetical so as not to implicate Phil.

homo maris:
Dive Sports was the ONLY AL dealer in Decatur Alabama (check the AL website there is no other dealer in Decatur) so he has 100% of the market share without even trying. The only competition is Internet dealers, like elsewhere. His market share is based on his outstanding service so it has not changed much and many customers are just switching away from AL to the brands Phil now recommends.


More referring to the online dealer vs LDS thing, but as has been previously mentioned eariler, that itopic has been discussed..many times...

homo maris:
I only quote US laws because they alone have jurisdiction over business in the US, where they are designed to maintain a free market. I appreciate that you want to contribute to this discussion but please do not change the context from US trade to international or Canadian trade. AL is based in California (sub of Texas Air Liquide, wholly owned by French Air Liquide) and Dive Sports is in Alabama. Both companies do business in states of the US, thus it is US laws like the section 1 of the Sherman Act that apply and not section 45 of the Canadian Competition Act.:)


Agreed...I actually made mention that this was primarily a US market based issue earlier.

homo maris:
Nothing like cheap stereotypes … actually, I laugh

Actually when I used the term you, I meant it in the plural (and in the general) not you in the specific and was not trying to use a "cheap steretype" merley posing the premise that along with the benefits if the free market system you also get the potential for factors I mentioned to occur. I've seen it happen here, though mostly as a result Canadian manufacturing and production is being replaced by "off shore" international manufacturers who can leverage cheaper labour, thus under cut market prices. It's not the ultimate end of a totally free market approach, but merely one possibility that could happen.

Anyway you're quite correct that this is mostly a domestic price fixing issue, but our two retail communities are not that far removed, so a shuffle either way in your country eventually could affect our retail market...expecailly when talking about manufacturer to dealer cost and MSRP issues.


awap:
Maybe that was true in your father's time. Mine used to say "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I like what whitelightenin is saying. Apeks is just one of many excellent regs. If you have got to have Apeks, you will have to shop elsewhere. If you want a high performane reg at a fair price, it looks like he can accomodate.

My comment to whitelightenin acutally had nothing to do with Apeks in specific. I worked in retail for a few years. Customer service meant serving the customer to fufill their needs and wants. If we didn't have the prioduct they were lookng for, we politely told them where they might find it. Even it was at another store. The good faith and customer gratification brought them back to us wherever they wanted something we carried.

I now own and operate my own business, and give my clients the same treatment. If I can do the job they way they want it done, I'll take them on as a client, if not I'll point them in the right direction...even if it leads to a competitor. It's called profesionalism. I'd rather my clients get the exact product they want, than try to sell them on a different one they did not want to begin with then try to convince them that its the same as what they wanted hence they're getting what they wanted. In other words trying to tell the customer what they want.

This also raises the specter that I was warned against when I first started diving last year. Everyone of the more experieinced divers told me to do my own research, select my product and not allow some store clerk to "sell me" away from what I wanted; whether it be as important as a regulator or as minor as a dive slate. So I guess this only applies if I'm buying stuff from manufactuers that some here like....right?

Everyone on this board has also told me to "get the equipment I'm comforatble with"" and "get the best I can afford". So I find it odd that I'd be compared to a fool, for follwing that same advice... perhaps there many more fools out there.
 
Storm:
Everyone on this board has also told me to "get the equipment I'm comforatble with"" and "get the best I can afford". So I find it odd that I'd be compared to a fool, for follwing that same advice... perhaps there many more fools out there.

Not everyone. I tell folks to get what they think they need. If they stay with SCUBA, they can upgrade with their next purchase as they upgrade their needs.
 
awap:
Not everyone. I tell folks to get what they think they need. If they stay with SCUBA, they can upgrade with their next purchase as they upgrade their needs.

One of the things I just noticed is the differences in our geographical regions. I'm not claiming one is better than the other (used to travel to Dallas frequently and really like the area) just saying that the environments are quite different and those differences perhaps change we look at equipment purchases.

For example, if I want to dive early and late in our shorter season, a reg that is environmentally sealed, with a cold water second stage with heat exchanger is better than a simple reg set that you could use in warm water environments. (agaonm not a slight against warm water enviroments...I'd rather dive in warm blue water than cold green water)

Getting the best equipment one can afford (up front) is actually more cost effective than the method you described. I actually followed ythe method you described for our first set of BCDs, and now they're on the list of things to change out. We started with jackets, but both of us now want to move to BP/Wings. So there's money down the drain.

If I did the same with the regs I would probably be replacing them in about two years...( right about the time we change over to dry suit diving, and started looking at really cold water (the frozen kind) diving.

We look to where we plan on being not where we are when making major purchases.
Perhaps that is a difference in our buying mentality. I don't see an investment in my future diving today, as a waste of money.

What would be a waste would be to pay six or seven hundred dollars for a reg set that would not allow us to dvie for teh full season up here, and would only have to be replaced in two years. Better to pay the full shot now and not have to do it later. Then there's the whole effort of trying to sell off the old gear we don't need.

Your method works well for teh vacatiopn diver (2 to 4 dives a year) and the equipment retailers...it give thems the opportunity to see the clients more, and and sell them more gear. Over the next two years, my LDS probably only be seeing me for air fills, extra tank rentals, annual service, and the occasional replacement of a minor piece of equipment. (After we change over the BCDs that is.)

IMHO. the "buy entry level then upgrade scheme" looks to be more in line with keeping shops selling gear, than helping the customer get the best bang for their buck.
 
So I was at WALMART today and in the sporting goods department. I notice they had mask/fin sets on sale.

What do you know.... they had the Aqualung logo on them. They also had the USDivers logo on them too... but they clearly had the Aqualung Logo on them also.


So Aqualung doesn't mind selling some of it's stuff through Wal-Mart but is screwing it's authorized dealers over petty stuff about dealer agrements? Jeez...

(yes I know that Walmart isn't selling their regulators, etc... but I'm surprised they aren't selling somebodys.)
 
Again, the real problem is that AL is doing nothing tangible to stop their product from endering the gray market - therefore, they are benefiting from it, at direct costs to their dealers.
 
that was kinda what I was pointing out by their Walmart sales. I'm sure they have been there forever, but it goes against them "protecting their dealers". (now of course I don't think some fin/mask sales at Walmart are the same as a regulator purchase at a LDS).

in my opinion Aqualung is basically "two faced". They allow some dealers/sellers to openly sell outside their 'dealer rules', but strong arm others. It's clearly a set of "double standards". (This statement is about the original topic and not about walmart selling fins).
 
Their WalMart stuff is not suitable for Scuba. It has nothing to do with Scuba Gear supplied to any shop. I doubt if they actually make it as it appears the origin of manufacture is Taipie.
 

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