The Aqualung Discussion [ Moved ]

[cerich]

If this were true it would mean $17,100,000 in sales. I think your friend misplaced a zero or two.

Yeah but at retail. He made the comment that close to 25% of AL's US business. Seems high to me as well.

 

[oly5050user]

To the best of my knowledge, there is no dive shop in NYC that has Aquarama anywhere in its name. I had never heard of it, so I looked in the phone book (white and yellow pages), went to Verizon.com, and did a Google search online. No such listing. So, I just asked someone who's been involved in diving in NY for many years if he ever heard of Bob's Aquarama, or any other "Aquarama," thinking that maybe they went out of business, or changed their name. His theory is that "Aquarama" is just a shell that's owned by the same people who own....... are you ready for this one? ........ Leisure Pro.

NOTE: I'm not stating this as fact, because, as far as I'm concerned, it's only conjecture. It would add a new dimension to this conversation, wouldn't it?

If your dive shop owner (or anyone else on SB) can get me an address for "Bob's Aquarama" from the AL website, I would be happy to go check it out. There is a business in Manhattan called Aqua-Trax that is also known as Aqua-Lung School of New York. They offer scuba instruction & equipment, and are a travel agent.

We had the same problem here in NY with Dacor..Dacor claimed they did not supply LP with equipment.We found out that direct deliveries from Dacor went to LP via a back door address(same address as LP) with a different name..we dropped Dacor and no longer support them..we found out about this because Dacor in Connecticut had us train some of their financial and order support employees and they told of this pratice first hand,not hearsay..

 

[cerich]

We had the same problem here in NY with Dacor..Dacor claimed they did not supply LP with equipment.We found out that direct deliveries from Dacor went to LP via a back door address(same address as LP) with a different name..we dropped Dacor and no longer support them..we found out about this because Dacor in Connecticut had us train some of their financial and order support employees and they told of this pratice first hand,not hearsay..

That is all true.


However please remember that Mares/Dacor has all new management who also felt that approach was crap. They changed that 2+ years back when they took over.
Phil Mintz (the new boss) is stand up, he may not say things you like or do things you agree with but he isn't out to screw the LDS over. Thats much better for the LDS than what was.

Obviously I feel that Oceanic is better or I wouldn't have left Mares/Dacor However the truth is at least they adressed the problem unlike others.

 

[cerich]

LP does have a contract instructor and compressor on site as far as I know(almost 3 years since I was there). Now the first may be for this very reason, I don't know if anybody actually takes any courses thru LP. The second, I know they do service and also know you need to fill tanks to service so I'm fairly sure that get used now and then.

The comment on "those people" at LP is below the belt IMHO.

LP is not the problem, the problem is the manufs. that continue to support LP getting equipment while placing their authorized dealers in a position they aren't able to compete.

Given your views on LP, all other things being equal, wouldn't LP be the easiest to compete againts if they weren't able to aquire brands that they can sell with no restrictions and authorized dealers were used to create the demand yet handcuffed to compete? Plus if the LDS does compete and is "caught" their dealership is taken away from them, all the while the flow of these "greay market" goods continues uninterrupted while some poor guy with his life tied up in a LDS get burned.

I prefer the approach that Oceanic is taking much more than Mares/Dacor but will concede their approach is much better than the BS others are doing.

The industry needs to get out of the past, that model is broke. It's what is happening NOW in the current climate that needs to be addressed.

 

[Whitelightnin]

Thank you for clearing that up. When I said I was confued I was not being sarcastic. So it is the grey market dealer who does not provide free parts and service and are working on volume so they can reduce the price accordingly. They avoid taking the hit that the LDS takes to provide the waranty service.

But basically from the buyer's end, we're still talking, price difference, between wanting a reduced price up front versus paying a little more for cost savings over time.

Now from the dealer's point of view. They purchase a number of regs for a wholesale price. The MSRP is x dollars, but the grey market price (sans warranty) is y dollars. The contention here is that the dealer should have the right to sell the regs for the same price as the grey market, while still honoring the warranty or sell at the same price as grey market without the warranty?

Also if the dealer sells at the same price as grey market, but said they will honor the warranty what recourse would the purchaser have if the LDS decided they didn't want keep honoring the warranty...with no registation would not the buyer be out in the cold warranty wise?

Just trying to get a handle on this.

Thanks for the help.

Please let me explain how the waranty deal works. Keep in mind that this explanation is in relation to this thread only & does not include all aspects of the waranty such as defects. The waranty is between the customer and the mfg. not between the customer & the dealer. The only hit taken by anyone concerning the waranty is the mfg.All authorized dealers are required to honor the waranty. There is no reason for them not to. The mfg provides the parts for free & the dealer charges you for their labor.Labor is NOT included in the waranty.You pay for that. If you buy from the grey market, the mfg is off the hook on the parts. That saves them money. You can get them serviced, you just have to pay for the parts whereas if you had bought from an authorized dealer, the mfg would provide free parts.

With that in mind, what AL did was to pull a dealership from a shop simply because he sold at a price that was below what AL set as the minimum allowable for an authorized dealer to sell at. Leasure Pro is not bound by that minimum & can sell at whatever they feel like. With the minimum priceing in place, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the authorized dealers to compete with the grey market.

Why does AL supply the grey market & allow them to sell at ANY price but will cut off supplies to an authorized dealer if he sells below their set minimum? And YES, they DO supply the grey market although they lie about it to us dealers & to the customers. There is plenty of proof out there on this statement.

James

 

[Brandon]

So we had a few days to cool off...

I'm still irritated though!

Has everyone who cares to taken the time to submit an online FTC complaint yet? That's our biggest tool to get this issue resolved, and it's only going to work if we get a large number of complaints into the system.

Read back a couple pages for instructions, or PM me. It only takes a couple minutes and WILL make a difference.

-Brandon.

 

[redacted]

The comment on "those people" at LP is below the belt IMHO.

LP is not the problem, the problem is the manufs. that continue to support LP getting equipment while placing their authorized dealers in a position they aren't able to compete.

Given your views on LP, all other things being equal, wouldn't LP be the easiest to compete againts if they weren't able to aquire brands that they can sell with no restrictions and authorized dealers were used to create the demand yet handcuffed to compete? Plus if the LDS does compete and is "caught" their dealership is taken away from them, all the while the flow of these "greay market" goods continues uninterrupted while some poor guy with his life tied up in a LDS get burned.

Chris

That pretty much laid all your cards on the table and I'm pretty sure I'm looking at a winner.

But the problem is some (maybe many) shops really don't want those retail price restrictions to drop or disappear. They don't want to compete. They want/need the manufacture to control any price competition so their profits from the sale of big ticket item is not cut. I hope they can change and adjust.

 

[mike_s]

I filled out the FTC complaint. Many of us doing that is the onlything that is going to keep Aqualung from strong-arming small dive shops.

I emailed Aqualung twice and asked for a reply, but the cowards didn't reply either time.

 

[mdb]

Chris

That pretty much laid all your cards on the table and I'm pretty sure I'm looking at a winner.

But the problem is some (maybe many) shops really don't want those retail price restrictions to drop or disappear. They don't want to compete. They want/need the manufacture to control any price competition so their profits from the sale of big ticket item is not cut. I hope they can change and adjust.

Awap: Good post. You are correct in stating that many LDS folks want the price controls. "You are going to die if you buy from the internet. There is no warranty etc."
This no longer holds merit. The internet is not going away. Both companies and LDS folks must adapt. In time they all will. In the meantime, more and more divers are simply voting with their pocketbooks.

 

[Brandon]

Awap reminded me of a post Larry made a few months ago regarding his Scubapro dealership. Worth posting here, as it concerns many of the same issues people are having with Aqualung, and reinforces that this is an industry wide problem.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1404664&postcount=37

-Brandon.