"That" diver

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I work for a busy dive operation and see people with cameras all the time that have no business bringing them on a dive. I honestly can't tell you the amount of times I have wanted to take one of those poles and wrap it around the owners head.

I don't find a problem in talking to people after the dive who have bad skills/attitude. Often they pick this stuff up from diving somewhere in their past, not knowing it is bad and when addressed, if done in the right way then they try to work on it. I don't think DMs hold back because of concerns about their tips, think about it this way, if 8 people are pissed off with one person because of their behaviour, you talk to that one person about it then you have 8 potential tips that are happy and one who may now consider themselves a little more educated. But it's not about tips, for me anyway.

It's about education, setting a norm.

The thing is people just don't know what they don't know. A good example recently was an open water student asking if it was OK to bring a go pro along on their OW course, talk about a distraction! He had no idea why that would be a bad idea. People don't understand what they are doing is wrong or bad and it's for that reason that I like to have the conversation with them, in a relaxed non condescending way when on the boat or at the bar.

I'll always remember a guy who was on the boat for a week who had a crazy expensive camera set up and his dive skills were atrocious. Diving a 100cf in fair conditions would get him around about 25-30 mins underwater spent dive bombing coral and bicycle kicking along in full 45 degree trim. At first when I approached the subject gently he shrugged it off, politely enough but clearly I was not the first to raise this with him. So after the next dive I sat down with him and talked it through. His big deal is obviously taking pictures. Because he had no skills underwater his time (opportunity to take pics) was limited so working on buoyancy to get more bottom time became appealing. Secondly the pics he was able to get sucked due to shaking, silting etc so again demonstrating the need for control to help end up with better pics was easy to articulate. He got it and ditched the camera for a while.

The go pro generation is a little different. Many people who probably won't stay in the sport for long and therefore don't have much interest in personal development as a diver buy them for their vacation to have a keep sake of that time they went diving.

Either way, I think it is up to us as people who recognise the issue to help try to correct it, not from a pompous stand point but from an educational one. If you see something you know is wrong then help the person who is getting it wrong. As a rookie diver I was reliant on the experience of those around me for my development and am still grateful for it.

People are people so of course you'll get those ones who just won't listen for whatever reason but many will, even if they don't show it at the time.
 
I think what the overall conclusion is that you can't truly rely on a DM to police poor technique and reef destruction. If they are alive and enjoying themselves then they have completed their task. They see it all day. Instead of trying to function as a "hey, teacher! Jimmy just pushed me!" maybe we have to be the enforcers. Maybe not in a passive aggressive manner but more of a subtle " Boy am I glad I got to dive here today! Handful more of divers like you kicking and hitting the reefs and they might not be as enjoyable the next time we visit!" or "hey, can you try to keep your distance from the reef because you might not be aware (although you truly are) that you are killing the reefs!". The more we look away and just vent about the problems without saying anything is just as bad as an injustice to the cause.
 
My suggestion is a new PADI speciality, AOWP (Advanced Open Water Photography). We need a solid pre-requisite for the new speciality. I suggest rescue cert, or better yet Fundies. I think that this will work.:blinking:

I will report back about buoyancy, control, and photography after my weekend as DM on a LoB, out of Singapore to Tioman, Malaysia.
 
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as someone that had a camera from almost dive one, I have to wonder if the problem is the camera or the diver. [...] I don't think the camera will turn a conscientious diver into a careless diver but rather it's a careless, self centered diver that just happens to have a camera.
Great minds think alike :cool2:

I started bringing a camera on my last OW checkout dive and still carry one on about 90% of my dives. However, I've always been diligent to not let my shooting interfere with my basic diving skills, so I'm always trying to only allocate any spare mental bandwidth to my shooting. So far, the only complaints I've received have been from my regular buddy when I use a little too much time on one single subject and he has to wait for me, but we've sorted that out. He now knows a special sign which means "haul your frikkin' a$$ and let's get going". That helped a lot, and these days he actually helps me to discover cool critters to shoot. And even in my club, where people are pretty outspoken about buddy skills, I haven't had any complaints from my clubmate instabuddies.

Like you say, it's not the camera. It's the diver.
 
I read posts often enough about bad dive photographers that I know it must be true. But as someone that had a camera from almost dive one, I have to wonder if the problem is the camera or the diver.

The problem is the diver... but the camera makes them even worse.
 
Over 6,000 dives and I haven't needed a camera yet. Haven't carried one, either. I have no excuse for poor buoyancy control.
 
I had to shame my wife a little after a drift dive in which she almost destroyed reef while distracted by the camera. Now that she's aware of her buoyancy problems or lack of situational awareness while photographing, the camera only comes out when she's sure of her surroundings and buoyancy. But photography remains a fairly large task especially for inexperienced divers. It helps to simply point it out so the diver becomes aware. If the diver cares about reef preservation, they'll modify their habits.

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Over 6,000 dives and I haven't needed a camera yet.

You never NEED a camera. But some of us like taking pictures, so we carry one anyway. I'd recommend starting out with a simple P&S with no strobe, and upgrading as needs arise. A P&S in P mode without any external strobes is easy to use, and it requires little spare mental bandwidth to operate if you're decently trained in shooting. Upgrade as you feel the need and as you improve your basic skills. You can take pretty cool shots with just ambient lighting or your (or your buddy's) dive torch as your external lighting:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/e26D2P] [/URL]
 
You never NEED a camera. But some of us like taking pictures, so we carry one anyway. I'd recommend starting out with a simple P&S with no strobe, and upgrading as needs arise. A P&S in P mode without any external strobes is easy to use, and it requires little spare mental bandwidth to operate if you're decently trained in shooting. Upgrade as you feel the need and as you improve your basic skills. You can take pretty cool shots with just ambient lighting or your (or your buddy's) dive torch as your external lighting:


Oh, you mistake my post. I own lots of underwater cameras, from go-pro video cameras to very expensive hi-def cameras and Gates housings and point and shoots and housed SLR's. I derive no joy from taking pictures, so I don't. Come on the boat sometime and you will be welcome to use all or any of it. I don't like to be distracted from diving by carrying a camera. There is too much to see outside the viewfinder.
 
The problem is the diver... but the camera makes them even worse.
Agreed. Photography, lobstering, spear fishing, can all bring out the worst in a diver. The activity doesn't make us bad divers. It just accentuates traits already present.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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