testing brand new regulators prior to use?

[oly5050user]

It reads like that to me also.

The case in point was a couple who came in and spent over 1 hour-closer to 2 hours, with us asking questions on benefits and features of gear, trying on wet suits and bcd's for size, and then purchasing online at a price that was same as the LDS. I had scheduled a course for them to fit their schedule.. I owned the facility in question at the time ,this was back in 1990 and was not where I teach out of now, and made the decision to advise them to take classes elsewhere. Was it harsh? Sure it was. Was my choice. Did not have a good "gut" feeling about them and followed my "gut".
I sold that facility 2 years later , made money on it, as I had no time for it as still working corporate full time. It still is in business.

 

[buddhasummer]

The case in point was a couple who came in and spent over 1 hour-closer to 2 hours, with us asking questions on benefits and features of gear, trying on wet suits and bcd's for size, and then purchasing online at a price that was same as the LDS. I owned the facility in question at the time ,this was back in 1990 and was not where I teach out of now, and made the decision to advise them to take classes elsewhere. Was it harsh? Sure it was. Was my choice. Did not have a good "gut" feeling about them and followed my "gut".
I sold that facility 2 years later , made money on it, as I had no time for it as still working corporate full time. It still is in business.

In this example I can see your point, not sure if I would have done the same, but then again I'm not an owner of a dive store so its easy for me to arm chair critique as I have nothing to lose.

Again using this example, for me it would come down to money i.e if I was making money on the course or may be able to secure future monies from air fills, servicing etc then I would not have told them to go elsewhere. Money not emotion would be my guide.

For the record I think it's very bad form to try on gear, pick shop staffs brains etc and then buy online without at least giving the LDS a chance to offer goods at a lower price if they are able.

At the end of the day it's your shop and you can do as you please. I apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick but from your previous posts it just looked like you were annoyed that the equipment was purchased elsewhere and punished accordingly.

If this was not the case I retract all previous posts and apologise.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to operate a dive store in the current climate.

Cheers.

 

[flots am]

No such policy mentioned on their web site. Sounds like retribution to me.

Scuba New York - Learn To Dive - Purchase Scuba Equipment - Call 914-779-2966

Could be. But it still doesn't matter.

What everybody seems to be missing is that a business owner can do whatever they want as long as it's not illegal.

There's no obligation to sell to anybody in particular or sell for any particular price or to be "nice".

It might or might not be good business, but the market will decide that.

flots.

---------- Post added May 22nd, 2013 at 12:58 PM ----------

No such policy mentioned on their web site. Sounds like retribution to me.

Scuba New York - Learn To Dive - Purchase Scuba Equipment - Call 914-779-2966

That's possible, but still legal. I'm not actually defending any particular instance of pricing or customer relations, but trying to remove the illusion that there's any such thing as "not fair" in business.

The customer requested a service, the dealer told them how much it would cost. Saying "It should only cost X" or "The dealer should have done Y to make everybody happy with equipment purchased elsewhere" is irrelevant. All that matters is that there was a request and an offer. Nobody is required to offer any particular price and nobody is required to accept an offer.

In reality, if more shops charged extra for service on "not bought here," internet sales would dry up significantly.

While it's certainly possible to box up a malfunctioning reg and FedEx it back to the manufacturer or a service facility, it adds $50 for 2-way shipping 2nd day FedEx, and 4 extra days out of service, not to mention the annoyance of finding a suitable box, packing it up, labeling it and arranging for pickup and making arrangements with the service facility. And you have to do it every time service is required. If you get it back and it still leaks or breathes hard, you have to send it back again.

When contrasted with a locally purchaed reg, where service invovles walking in and saying "It breathes a little hard, can you take a look at it?", any money saved suddenly becomes less relevant when compared to shipping costs, effort and wasted free time.

Servicing equipment purchased from a competitor, at the standard rates, is essentially paying the customer to not buy from you.

If local SCUBA shops are going to survive in their present form, "cherry picking" needs to be made unprofitable from the consumer's side of the transaction. This can be done by providing a dis-incentive (higher prices) when servicing items purchased from competitors.

flots.

 

[DCBC]

What everybody seems to be missing is that a business owner can do whatever they want as long as it's not illegal. There's no obligation to sell to anybody in particular or sell for any particular price or to be "nice". It might or might not be good business, but the market will decide that.

You're right; the business owner can treat customers any way he wants. That is however a two-edged sword; it cuts both ways. What goes around eventually comes around...

 

[redacted]

Could be. But it still doesn't matter.

What everybody seems to be missing is that a business owner can do whatever they want as long as it's not illegal.

There's no obligation to sell to anybody in particular or sell for any particular price or to be "nice".

It might or might not be good business, but the market will decide that.

flots.

---------- Post added May 22nd, 2013 at 12:58 PM ----------



That's possible, but still legal. I'm not actually defending any particular instance of pricing or customer relations, but trying to remove the illusion that there's any such thing as "not fair" in business.

The customer requested a service, the dealer told them how much it would cost. Saying "It should only cost X" or "The dealer should have done Y to make everybody happy with equipment purchased elsewhere" is irrelevant. All that matters is that there was a request and an offer. Nobody is required to offer any particular price and nobody is required to accept an offer.

In reality, if more shops charged extra for service on "not bought here," internet sales would dry up significantly.

While it's certainly possible to box up a malfunctioning reg and FedEx it back to the manufacturer or a service facility, it adds $50 for 2-way shipping 2nd day FedEx, and 4 extra days out of service, not to mention the annoyance of finding a suitable box, packing it up, labeling it and arranging for pickup and making arrangements with the service facility. And you have to do it every time service is required. IF you get it back and it still leaks or breathes hard, you have to send it back again.

Servicing equipment purchased from a competitor, at the standard rates, is essentially paying the customer to not buy from you.

If local SCUBA shops are going to survive in their present form, "cherry picking" needs to be made unprofitable from the consumer's side of the transaction. This can be done by providing a dis-incentive (higher prices) for items purchased from competitors.

flots.

True as pertains to legal issues with some possible exceptions based on protected demographics. Then again, it is perfectly LEGAL for divers to use an LDS as a fitting room and pick the staff's brain(s) as much as they can. Hell, they could even drink the coffee if available. And then go make their purchases elsewhere. They could probably even get a bunch of their friends to do the same thing - all legal. Is that the only criteria we want to place on business and customer behaviors?

As far as punishing the unfaithful (internet purchasers), I suspect the big loser in that battle would be the dive shops. Such a business has too many vulnerabilities to start intentionally alienating divers. For one thing, they might have to start performing a VIS/service after each gear rental.

In many cases, it is cheaper and faster (and sometimes better quality service) to send things like regulators out for service anyway.

So, what is your relationship with dive shops?

 

[flots am]

True as pertains to legal issues with some possible exceptions based on protected demographics. Then again, it is perfectly LEGAL for divers to use an LDS as a fitting room and pick the staff's brain(s) as much as they can. Hell, they could even drink the coffee if available. And then go make their purchases elsewhere. They could probably even get a bunch of their friends to do the same thing - all legal. Is that the only criteria we want to place on business and customer behaviors?

The only thing that really matters is what consumers do, how the shops respond, and how that effects consumer behavior.

As far as punishing the unfaithful (internet purchasers), I suspect the big loser in that battle would be the dive shops. Such a business has too many vulnerabilities to start intentionally alienating divers. For one thing, they might have to start performing a VIS/service after each gear rental.

It might alienate consumers, or it might just make the consumers factor service availability and price into the buying decision.

In many cases, it is cheaper and faster (and sometimes better quality service) to send things like regulators out for service anyway.

Depends on the shop and the manufacturer. If the shop can't turn around a reg in less time that it takes for service and two way shipping, I probably don't want to send my regs there anyway.

So, what is your relationship with dive shops?

I teach at one, but was involved with a retail/service sector that went through all these same issues a couple of decades ago. For me, it's like watching an old TV rerun and knowing how it will end.

flots.

 

[elan]

In all fairness to your LDS, you asked them how much to put it together. You were told. It's like asking a cab driver How much to Alaska?

Its more like catching a cab near Empire state building and asking them How much to Metropilitan museum and he gives you a price to Alaska

 

[chrpai]

The linkage of sales and training is a clear conflict of interest. Absolutely retarded.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Everytime the op speaks in this thread, we hear bit more of the story. What we aren't hearing is the other side of the story. I'm starting to extrapolate a few things, perhaps erroneously, perhaps not. Where did op get his info to determine which regs to buy for himself and his wife in the first place? What other details have been left out?

Yes, I'm very much a proponent of making a relationship with your customer even if they've purchased elsewhere. Hope to turn them around and build loyalty, long-term. However if the "customer" has taken your class, managed to garner info on gear selection, join your shop dive club, brag to your other customers about the gear and deal in front of your face and then even further try to appease the situation by offering to buy a tube of lube and maybe a small tool . ..and then to have an instructor butting in along the way . . .well, I dunno. I'm extrapolating that there's still ever so much more of the story to be told and probably even some misunderstandings between/amongst everyone at the actual event in time, no less those of us participating here after the fact.

 

[OkByMe]

How do you expect the LDs to offer personal service when the item was purchased elsewhere? You trusted them enough to take your class there but not enough to purchase the TWO regulators you bought elsewhere. Its sort of a slap n the face to the staff at the LDS that taught you and destroyed any incentive for them to give you any type of service unless you are paying for it.. Are you saying they should do this service for free? What planet are you from?
The price may seem high, but they are doing a service that the OP does not want to do themselves.. Once they touch the regulator they own it. They have to deal with a customer that did not trust them enough to purchase the regulator from them. They do as much as scratch it and they have to answer to you. I think what they charged is fair under the circumstances.
I have had people show up for a ow class on their 1st night of pool work with complete gear set ups. They purchased online at the same price that we would charge...Makes no sense.. We refunded them their money in full and told them that I cannot teach them and to go to where they purchased the gear and get trained there.Their answer was the place they purchased the gear does not offer any classes. I even sent them to other dive facilities in the area about 15-20 minutes away.. No trust shown to me or the facility I teach out of . Two other students have done this in the past about 4-5 years ago and they actually returned all the online purchased gear and purchased from us after we explained the service that can go with the sale. They have taken at least 4 trips to the islands with us..One is now in a IDC at our facility , IE next weekend, and his wife is in a AI course with us. They will be getting classes assigned and make $$$ thru the facility.

Now that is just wrong. The cost of the class should reflect the margin the LDS makes. It never occurred to me that the class cost was marginalized to help build marketing loyalty! I had to take NITOX classes a couple of years ago because on some occasions, I was too lazy to drag my compressor with me or couldn't' and wanted my bump. I came with my own gear that I have been using and maintaining for years. If I had been turned away because I did not present a potential sales opportunity.... I'm retired, I have the time and the money to make that shop wish they had kissed my ass instead.