Technical Bcd question

[aquanuts...]

BP's are more versatile. You can expand your diving needs with it. If you want to single tank dive, it will do it. If you want to double up and strap on stages, it will do that too.

One thing I've noticed, jackets float you great on the surface. A lot of people like this. BP's take some practice. This is the only drawback. If you ever want to get into tech, you will need a BP. Go ahead with the BP, you will not regret it.

 

[S. starfish]

I know plenty of people who have switched from a BCD, jacket and back inflate, to a bp/w system but none who have switch the other way. So it seems to be the way to go here in BC, although it could also be a fad as well. The advice to try out a few different systems first and to imagine where you want to be in five years is pretty much all the advice you need. The only problem with testing out dive gear is that it always takes a few dives to learn how to dive it properly, so it takes a long time to form a proper opinion of whatever it is yo're testing out. I know that when I first tried Jet fins i hated them, bought something else, learned how to use them properly later and now love them more than anything else. I'll list what I've found with the two systems but here's the bottom line: If you have the time, money, patience and option to I'd test out a few systems first to see what suits you best. If you really want to buy something now I'd go with a backplate and wing system, it seems to be a pretty safe bet. Just make sure you don't get conned into buying a 50lb wing to dive a single tank, i've sen it happen to a few people.
BCD's
PROS
- There's a wide selection out there
- many will float you better at the surface than a bp/w (not the back inflate style though)
- Quick and easy adjustment
- easier resale: If you don't like it there's far more people out there looking to get a BC than a bp/w
CONS
- Jacket style can squeeze quite a bit when fully inflated
- Generally a lot more unstable in the water.
- Bulky, lots of drag and they don't pack up too nice
- If one part breaks the whole things broke
- Uselss if you want to persue any form of technical diving - wrecks, caves, deco, etc.
- The BCD market is a lot more competative than the bp/w market, so a lot of BCD's are made with stupid "whistles and bells" to make the BCD seem better than all the rest. Really all they do is jack up the price and possibly get in the way.
- Limited adjustablility, and if you're using weight integrated i've found that shoulder straps have a tendancy to become looser over the course of a dive.
Back Plate and Wing
PROS
- Very adjustable, you can add or take away d-rings and clips if you want too. You can adjust the positioning of the tank and wing relative to the backplate to better suit your "personal bouyancy".
- Once adjusted it will stay that way
- Much more stable in the water
- If you decide that you want to start diving twins you only need a new wing, not an entire new bc.
- good for tech diving.
- If you don't buy halcyon you can get one cheaper than many BCDs (check out oxycheq, it's good stuff)
CONS
- Takes much longer to set up wich can be a pain if you lend it to a buddy.
- Have to make sure that everyting is securely fastened so your wing doesn't come off (not a huge deal, you just have to give the bolts a quick twist before putting it on)
- A little trickier to use
- If you like having pockets, these don't have any - you can however get pockets to attach to your harness.
- They don't work so well with a standard reg set up, it's much easier to dive a backplate and wing with a long hose setup. It can be done however.
- If you get a one piece harness they're a little trickier to get on and off as they have no releases in the shoulders, it comes with practice though.

my $0.02

 

[jeckyll]

S.Starfish: Nice summary. We do seem to have a lot of BC/W's around here.

 

[Luc Dupas]

I know plenty of people who have switched from a BCD, jacket and back inflate, to a bp/w system but none who have switch the other way.

Well... I do know at least one...
One of our instructor switched over again to a standard BCD with a single tank after diving for years with a wing and double tanks... simply for comfort reasons...

• if you stick to a simple no-bells-n-wistles BCD you've got an extremely good BCD for "no money", which is quite compact and easy for travelling... it does the right job for 99.99% of the classical 'recreational' dives, I've been with my current BCD (which is actually the most simple model Mares did make 5 years ago) several times down to -50m and beyond, with my 7mm wetsuit and 7mm drysuit, deco dives with ascent/deco times up to 30mins, no problem whatsoever.
• for 99.99% of the classical 'recreational' dives, even the deco ones, a single tank (we standardly use a 15 liter water volume one) is more than sufficiant for a single dive and it is pure nonsense to try to carry doubles simply with the excuse 'you can do two dives with it'...
• inflating/deflating the BCD and trimming underwater is a snap... you don't have to learn to 'tilt' in whatever directly underwater to fully be able to dump all the air in your BCD since in whatever position there's always a 'top' dump valve allowing to dump all the air.
• with a properly fit BCD you float very comfortably upright and even tilted slightly backwards at the surface, e.g. waiting for the boat to pick you up after a sea dive... it's 100% sure/safe. And even with a fully inflated BCD, either underwater or at the surface, you can still freely breathe if you don't make the stupid mistake of thightening the front straps too much!
• with a properly sized and fitted BCD you've almost no added drag while swimming underwater since most of the air pockets are located at the side under your arms/shoulders and as such it does not increase the overall cross section as the big wing flaps aside the tanks do.
• with a properly sized/fitted BCD and proper weighting you can hover neutrally and stable in whatever position (on your belly, on your back, on your sides, feet up, etc.) and effortless change to another position.
• donning and adjusting a BCD is a snap, if you change your suits (e.g. thick drysuit with undergarment in winter time, thick wetsuit in spring and autumn, thinner wetsuit in summer or an vacation) you don't have to fiddle adjusting a sturdy harness.
• if you've diving with a boat/RIB, or in case of an emergency underwater or at the surface, taking off your BCD is a piece of cake, especially with the models with quick releases on the shoulder straps... you can do it yourself in seconds or someone else who comes over to help you does it in seconds... you don't have to "study" and "practice/train" for ages to do so.
• need more D-rings? No problem whatsoever... with a sewing machine, loose D-rings and some webbing you can add as many D-rings as you wish/need around the rim of the bladder of the BCD at exactly the location where you need it. (make sure of course you don't puncture the bladder itself!).
• changing tanks and/or fitting other tanks is a snap...
• etc...

Anyhow... it's personal preference after all... give it a try and see what configuration/setup works the best for you, and if this is a BCD, great, and if this is a BP/W, great.

 

[dmblack58]

I was in the same boat about 10 months ago.

The first question to ask yourself of how far do you want to go in diving. Do you want to be a single tank recreational diver or do you want to eventually get into some technical diving with double tanks etc.

If you answer yes to the later (you want to get into some kind of tech diving) then I would suggest looking at a BP/W set up from OMS, DiveRite or Halcyon. Halcyon (in Ontario) seems to be a bit more expensive than the OMS or DiveRite rigs.

My advice would be to call these three shops and chat with them about what they suggest for diving in Southern Ontario. I know each of them will be able to put together a very nice package that could include a BCD (either a jacket or BP/W), regs, computer.

www.northerntechdiver.com - in Kingston
www.divesource.com - in Oshawa
www.dansdiveshop.ca - in St Catharines

There are a couple of myths out there about BP/W that are false.
1) A BP/W will push you over onto your face at the surface. This is untrue, while it won't give you the feeling you are sitting in a chair like a jacket will it won't push you over onto your face at the surface no matter how new you are to diving (unless its really badly weighted at the top).
2) BP/W are uncomfortable. Again, untrue. While it looks like it might be uncomfortable it isn't. The plate sits quite nicely against your back and the straps follow a similar path on your body to the jacket straps. There is less padding on the straps but once you are in a wetsuit you won't notice the difference. The jacket seems more comfortable in the store when your wearing a t-shirt but you're not going to be wear just a t-shirt when you dive in Ontario.

Good luck with your decision

David

 

[Luc Dupas]

There are a couple of myths out there about BP/W that are false.
1) A BP/W will push you over onto your face at the surface. This is untrue,

Maybe something to try out in a real life situation...
Let's assume you're floating in the water at -5m, doing your safety stop, nicely neutrally trimmed lying horizontally on your belly, face down. Suddenly you feel dizzy, you start losing conscience but you still manage to hit the inflator button to inflate your wing and then the light goes out... you're still there in the water, horizontally, limb, you're still breathing, you don't do anything and your inflated wing will bring you to the surface... You yourself don't do anything, you just let it happen...
Will, at the surface, your inflated wing automatically turn you in a face-out-of-the-water position? Give it a try... you'll be suprised... :14:

 

[mattroz]

will your jacket bc? these are not PFDs they're not designed for that purpose.

 

[ChrisEdwards]

Will, at the surface, your inflated wing automatically turn you in a face-out-of-the-water position? Give it a try... you'll be suprised... :14:

Probably not, but my buddy will.

 

[dmblack58]

Maybe something to try out in a real life situation...
Let's assume you're floating in the water at -5m, doing your safety stop, nicely neutrally trimmed lying horizontally on your belly, face down. Suddenly you feel dizzy, you start losing conscience but you still manage to hit the inflator button to inflate your wing and then the light goes out... you're still there in the water, horizontally, limb, you're still breathing, you don't do anything and your inflated wing will bring you to the surface... You yourself don't do anything, you just let it happen...
Will, at the surface, your inflated wing automatically turn you in a face-out-of-the-water position? Give it a try... you'll be suprised... :14:

Is that the best argument you can come up with against a BP/W? Have you ever seen this happen or heard of it happening?

Like ChrisEdward said

Probably not, but my buddy will.

 

[Luc Dupas]

will your jacket bc? these are not PFDs they're not designed for that purpose.

Don't know... but I'll tell you after this weekend... I'll give it a try together with some DIR-friends (them with BP/W obviously) and let you know...

Probably not, but my buddy will.

Do you mean this person who -Murphys Law- is always there, except when you're in deep **** and really really really need him?

Is that the best argument you can come up with against a BP/W? Have you ever seen this happen or heard of it happening?

This is no 'argument against' BP/W... it was simply a question/reply following your 'myth'-statement.
By the way... it always strikes me that nowadays 'touching' the status of BP/W is really 'not done' and in order to be 'part of the crowd' you have to be 100% pro BP/W, and that mainly novice divers are so much against questioning things???