Tech through PADI or TDI?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

John, I included the link to the Standards for TDI and quoted it in my post. I even mentioned its rare to teach a DP that doesn't either include or already have some form of EANX, but that is the standard. Just showing that by you saying "it's required" isn't correct. Just like you saying Deep diver isn't "required".

So here is what I'm saying again......the PADI path to Deco and 150' "requires" more steps. That's not a bad thing.

You know Jay, I really like how GUE, UTD, ISE all require skills proficiency to be established before even starting their tech courses. Unfortunately, I don't agree with all their philosophies for one reason or another, so none of them work for me long term. But I do respect their skills and the very clear definition of pass metrics. Down the road, I imagine I'll get into teaching tech (but I have a lot of diving to do between now and then). I don't know for which agency, but I think I'd prefer to have those foundational skills established first by my students. Others may (or I should say: will) disagree.

 

[sigxbill]

I really like how GUE, UTD, ISE all require skills proficiency to be established before even starting their tech courses. Unfortunately, I don't agree with all their philosophies for one reason or another, so none of them work for me long term.

Hi Kosta - I'm interested in what UTD philosophies you disagree with and why? Care to share?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hi Kosta - I'm interested in what UTD philosophies you disagree with and why? Care to share?

Let's move that discussion to PM, as that will go way off topic.

 

[Dan_P]

My understanding is that UTD is one agency that takes video of all students performing skills in the water and then the student has to be "vetted" by more than one instructors. I think GUE does the same. This way, the passing criteria is not as subjective or dependent upon a single person as it is in TDI or PADI.

I like this idea. All UTD and GUE students that I have come across were at exact same skill level regardless of the agency. In TDI and PADI, I have seen such huge variation in skill that it was hard to believe that everyone was being measured by the same yard stick when c cards were being handed out. One instructors yard stick would be so radically different than the other even though both taught for the same agency.

We use video recordings in our classes, but the vetting process is focused on IDCs.

For the bulk of classes, video is purely an educational tool. That is, in a post-dive debriefing, the team goes through the dive again and the instructor uses the recording to highlight strengths and development points.

It's a potent tool during class, and the student also gets a take-away for their further development after the course is over.

In a past life, I was trained to be an instructor in a military context, where video debriefing was also a most helpful educational tool to my trainers.

I have great personal experiences with this methodology, both inside and outside of diving, as instructor and student, and can warmly recommend practicing video debriefing to instructors, regardless if it's in scuba or many other areas of teaching.

 

[boulderjohn]

Well I am working on my GUE tec fundies pass (already have wreck), but my direction is sidemount anyway.

Just curious, where is the performance requirement for the valve drill stated? Anything for students to see, or is this information for the instructor (which is probably somewhere Googlable)?

It is not available publically unless some individual instructor has published it.

I always give me students the exact standards they have to me via copy/paste. My first tech instructor refused to tel us what the standards were--he said he would tell us when we passed. When I later became an instructor for the same agency, I saw that the course he was teaching and the course for which I was certified were two different things. I resented that, and I make sure the students know my exact requirements for instruction.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It is not available publically unless some individual instructor has published it.

I always give me students the exact standards they have to me via copy/paste. My first tech instructor refused to tel us what the standards were--he said he would tell us when we passed. When I later became an instructor for the same agency, I saw that the course he was teaching and the course for which I was certified were two different things. I resented that, and I make sure the students know my exact requirements for instruction.

John,

I do the same with all my courses. Given that PADI tec 40/45/50 can start in the pool with the first dive, can the performance requirement be met there? As there is a big difference for me between doing this with a wetsuit (or no suit in a pool) and in a dry suit in the Puget Sound in 50 degree water. Do I assume correctly that this is starting in tec 40? Is this skill repeated in each dive for all 3 classes?

 

[boulderjohn]

John,

I do the same with all my courses. Given that PADI tec 40/45/50 can start in the pool with the first dive, can the performance requirement be met there? As there is a big difference for me between doing this with a wetsuit (or no suit in a pool) and in a dry suit in the Puget Sound in 50 degree water

No.

The skills required for each dive are spelled out. Students have to do the valve shut down drill many times, on most of the dives through Tec 50. The requirements get harder as they go. Similarly, they have to shoot bags many times throughout the classes.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No.

The skills required for each dive are spelled out. Students have to do the valve shut down drill many times, on most of the dives through Tec 50. The requirements get harder as they go. Similarly, they have to shoot bags many times throughout the classes.

Ok. I'll google the instructor manual to read and let this channel return to its scheduled programming

 

[decompression]

Kosta , which agency skills are you interested in?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Kosta , which agency skills are you interested in?

Jay,

Found what I was looking for.

Thanks