Tech through PADI or TDI?

[stuartv]

GUE Fundamentals is a great suggestion to anyone interested in tech. It is longer and has more dives/instruction than other intro to tech level courses.

Not exactly correct. It's minimum is longer than the minimum prescribed for other courses. The actual length of other courses is up to the instructor. My TDI Intro to Tech course was longer than any Fundies class I've ever heard of.

 

[taimen]

Not exactly correct. It's minimum is longer than the minimum prescribed for other courses. The actual length of other courses is up to the instructor. My TDI Intro to Tech course was longer than any Fundies class I've ever heard of.

Thats great, it is the instructor, not the agency... I know club organized CMAS OW courses that cover everything included in fundies/ITT.
I was trying to answer the question why, without asking further details, GUE is recommended so often. That is because it is good and so consistent all over the world.

 

[stuartv]

Thats great, it is the instructor, not the agency... I know club organized CMAS OW courses that cover everything included in fundies/ITT.
I was trying to answer the question why, without asking further details, GUE is recommended so often. That is because it is good and so consistent all over the world.

Understood. I just wanted to correct the statement that Fundies is longer. Fundies MAY be longer. A class from another agency MAY be longer. As you say, it depends on the instructor.

 

[boulderjohn]

As you say, it depends on the instructor

...and the student. With most agencies, the class is over when the student masters the required skills, however long that takes. With some agencies, the class lasts a specific length of time, after which the student is judged to have passed or failed.

 

[leadduck]

I just wanted to correct the statement that Fundies is longer. Fundies MAY be longer. A class from another agency MAY be longer. As you say, it depends on the instructor.

Agreed, you may find an instructor that goes the extra mile and spends a lot of extra time beyond the minimum required by agency standards, but that's not guaranteed of course. Did you have to pay extra? I made good experiences with 1:1 classes instead of group training, and with a couple of days' break between training days.

 

[KevinNM]

I think this factor time is very important and often forgotten in these discussions, whereas the fame of elite instructors is often overrated. This is just a sport, not a black art, at least not at the beginning. I don't need the full cave instructor trainer with 2,000 cave dives to teach me how to tie a string to a rock in a cavern class, just like I won't book Tiger Woods for my first golf lesson.

You can get someone like Jon Bernot or Edd Sorenson to teach you how to cave dive for about the same money as Someguy Whoboughtacard. It just might take some time to fit it in their schedule. And if you go with someone who has done a lot of complex dives and taught a lot of students to cave dive the odds are they won’t teach you things that will get you killed. It’s hard to unlearn incorrect things you are taught when you didn’t know anything. Don’t go with Someguy because it’s economical, it’s a dangerous and very expensive hobby.

 

[leadduck]

You can get someone like Jon Bernot or Edd Sorenson to teach you how to cave dive for about the same money as Someguy Whoboughtacard. It just might take some time to fit it in their schedule. And if you go with someone who has done a lot of complex dives and taught a lot of students to cave dive the odds are they won’t teach you things that will get you killed. It’s hard to unlearn incorrect things you are taught when you didn’t know anything. Don’t go with Someguy because it’s economical, it’s a dangerous and very expensive hobby.

Sorry I didn't want to suggest booking cheap classes with inexperienced instructors, but wanted to say that there are many good instructors out there that are not famous, aren't record holders, don't publish books or magazines, have no good website, but have a lot of experience and do a good job at teaching the basics. So we may agree that one should pick a tech instructor that has a lot of experience diving at a level significantly above the class he teaches.

 

[KevinNM]

OK. On the Tiger Woods thing - I have no idea if Tiger Woods is even capable of teaching normal people to play golf. A lot of very high level athletes are terrible coaches or instructors because they are not wired like normal people. That’s why they are very high level athletes. So the way they do the skills and think about the skills needed simply won’t work for a normal person trying to learn a sport.

It’s not always true. There is the story I think I heard here of the guy trying to learn how to waterski barefoot, and an X-games champ showed him in an afternoon. But being good at doing something, even being the best in the world at something, doesn’t mean they are a good instructor for you.

 

[stuartv]

Agreed, you may find an instructor that goes the extra mile and spends a lot of extra time beyond the minimum required by agency standards, but that's not guaranteed of course. Did you have to pay extra? I made good experiences with 1:1 classes instead of group training, and with a couple of days' break between training days.

No. I did not have to pay any extra.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Agreed, you may find an instructor that goes the extra mile and spends a lot of extra time beyond the minimum required by agency standards, but that's not guaranteed of course. Did you have to pay extra? I made good experiences with 1:1 classes instead of group training, and with a couple of days' break between training days.

I’ve taken fundies and that, along with feedback I’ve received from students, has set up the framework in the con ed courses that I teach with exception for dry suit and deep.

The structure, expectations, cost are all up front. I take breaks with students where they go practice and once they master the skills, we reconvene and they are tested. For the kind of student I want to teach, this is well received.