I'm not sure what you are asking.
How it's worked when I've been the DM is the instructor says, "okay, John, for this next set of exercises, Stuart is going to be your buddy..." Then the instructor briefs the skills and we go do them.
Tech through PADI or TDI?
- Thread starter Black Cat
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I'm not sure what you are asking.
How it's worked when I've been the DM is the instructor says, "okay, John, for this next set of exercises, Stuart is going to be your buddy..." Then the instructor briefs the skills and we go do them.
I am pretty sure that the statement that you cannot have a tech student alone in a class would be a personal philosophy rather than an agency requirement for almost all agencies. I myself was a single student when I got my cave diving certification from NSS-CDS, my Trimix and Advanced Trimix certifications from TDI, and my Cave scooter and cave sidemount certifications from PSAI. In all of those cases, the instructor would have happily had another student, but they just weren't around.
I did train with another agency for a while that did have that requirement for a training partner, and it is one of the reasons I left that agency. I was part of a group of students training with that agency, working our way through to complete the full trimix certification sequence. That agency also required you to complete a slew of experience dives at the current certification level between each certification. I can't remember the exact depth requirements, but it was something like once you were certified to dive beyond 200 feet, you had to complete 20 trimix dives below 200 feet before you could start the class to be certified to go to 250 feet. IIRC, the total experience dives required to complete the sequence ahead of us was 95, not counting the actual training dives during the classes.
I was the only one in my group who had completed the number of dives required for the next level, and by polling them for their upcoming plans, I determined that I would not be able to find a training partner for that next class for at least 9 months. When I looked at the full sequence, I realized it would take me personally a couple of years to get in that number of trimix experience dives, and that was not considering that I would need to wait for training partners to catch up with me each time. I seriously estimated that the training partner requirement meant it would take me about 7 years to get the rest of my trimix certification.
My training level at that point was roughly the equivalent of TDI trimix, but I estimated that it would take me about 7 years to complete the training with that other agency. I already had the TDI prerequisites for trimix training, so I just went to Florida for a couple of weeks and got the TDI certification instead.
My estimate of 7 years to complete that training with that other agency turned out to be completely wrong. To the best of my knowledge, no one in that other agency ever got to the next certification level, so I never would have been able to start the next class with that group. I would have had to do a world-wide search to find a training partner at each of those remaining training levels.
I did train with another agency for a while that did have that requirement for a training partner, and it is one of the reasons I left that agency. I was part of a group of students training with that agency, working our way through to complete the full trimix certification sequence. That agency also required you to complete a slew of experience dives at the current certification level between each certification. I can't remember the exact depth requirements, but it was something like once you were certified to dive beyond 200 feet, you had to complete 20 trimix dives below 200 feet before you could start the class to be certified to go to 250 feet. IIRC, the total experience dives required to complete the sequence ahead of us was 95, not counting the actual training dives during the classes.
I was the only one in my group who had completed the number of dives required for the next level, and by polling them for their upcoming plans, I determined that I would not be able to find a training partner for that next class for at least 9 months. When I looked at the full sequence, I realized it would take me personally a couple of years to get in that number of trimix experience dives, and that was not considering that I would need to wait for training partners to catch up with me each time. I seriously estimated that the training partner requirement meant it would take me about 7 years to get the rest of my trimix certification.
My training level at that point was roughly the equivalent of TDI trimix, but I estimated that it would take me about 7 years to complete the training with that other agency. I already had the TDI prerequisites for trimix training, so I just went to Florida for a couple of weeks and got the TDI certification instead.
My estimate of 7 years to complete that training with that other agency turned out to be completely wrong. To the best of my knowledge, no one in that other agency ever got to the next certification level, so I never would have been able to start the next class with that group. I would have had to do a world-wide search to find a training partner at each of those remaining training levels.
Jack Hammer
Contributor
The overall experience and mental aspects of taking a couse solo or with another student are different at the tech level.
There also is the issue of different levels of competency in TEC classes with more than one student. It is not fair for less prepared / less competent students to prevent other more prepared / more competent students to be prevented from completing their certifications. TEC courses are expensive and divers may only have certain scheduling windows especially when the training is done during a trip.
You don't have that issue with a one on one situation.
You don't have that issue with a one on one situation.
Everyone has a bad day sooner or later, but a student that is grossly unprepared for a course to the point that they are preventing others from completing, and are probably a hazard to themselves too, should be removed from the course before it reaches that point.
Yes, one on one teaching can have some great results, but having a second person participate in the course allows the instructor to be 100% focused on observing the students instead of being an active team member. Case in point, cave diving is performed single file, the first person in is the last person out. If a course is with just one student there will either be a point on each dive (either going in, or going out) where the instructor is in the lead instead of observing the students, or the student is not really learning proper cave diving protocols (because the student is always leading).
I always try to make an effort and pull another person into any of my courses for that reason. If I have a situation with just one student, I can usually find someone looking to go diving for a few days that maybe wants to refresh their skills that can sit in and help.
Michael Guerrero
Contributor
Meh...
Like northernone, I expected to do the vast majority of my tech diving solo because I move frequently and sometimes (often even) to places with little to no local diving community--like john mentioned. Similarly, while I look forward to diving with buddies that are of similar certification and skill level, things often just do not line up. If forced to choose between not diving and diving alone, foregoing diving is not even a consideration. That said, I agree that not having your instructor forced to be your tackling dummy at the same time is better. Sometimes though, you just make it work.
I think the foundation of tech is having a disciplined, deliberate, thoughtful, and informed approach to engaging in a risky hobby or profession. I find being able to share that with others enjoyable and rewarding, but not requisite.
Thank y'all for all the replies with so many good points...
I'll answer specifically to this one
Thanks for the points you've raised. I'll try to give you some explanations.
1) About the competent instructor. First of all, this applied to every course, not only tech. But this is not the point. Since I'm taking this seriously, I've spoken with many divers (friends whom I trust, most of them tech divers), and all of them told me that the instructor I'm choosing is the best one. Also, I dove with him several time and I also did the Rescue course with him. Now, I usually don't trust people in general. This guy gave convinced me with his attitude and seriousness in his job to choose him, so I'm confident about him.
2) About the number of students: what I understood is that the number of students is organised in a way that the instructor show how to do it, and the students try it on each others. Again, this is my understanding, and what they told me in the past, during several PADI courses I've completed. Now, I see tech a notch more difficult than other courses, and in my opinion, having an instructor that is 100% on you is a good thing (and this one explain also the other divers pace, etc: when i was doing my advance course -for example- I was pretty good with my buoyancy and air consumption, but we had to finish the dives sometimes after 20 minutes -or even less!!- because other students were already out of air or they had terrible buoyancy. you can read this as a cocky argument, but it is what it is).
3) The concerning about the small amount: all the agencies I've checked have the same amount of dives pretty much. My concern is because with the "advanced level" that tech is, I think that it might requires more dive...
4) Yak in the pool: I'm germophobic, but I'm also pretty blind. I also swim a lot, but of course without my glasses, so I don't see all the disgusting things floating in a pool. When I dive I use masks with correction lenses and I can see very well and very clear. The idea of being in a pool and being able to see all the disgusting human debris makes me yak.
There you go, I hope I was clear enough in my answers
I'll answer specifically to this one
Thanks for the points you've raised. I'll try to give you some explanations.
1) About the competent instructor. First of all, this applied to every course, not only tech. But this is not the point. Since I'm taking this seriously, I've spoken with many divers (friends whom I trust, most of them tech divers), and all of them told me that the instructor I'm choosing is the best one. Also, I dove with him several time and I also did the Rescue course with him. Now, I usually don't trust people in general. This guy gave convinced me with his attitude and seriousness in his job to choose him, so I'm confident about him.
2) About the number of students: what I understood is that the number of students is organised in a way that the instructor show how to do it, and the students try it on each others. Again, this is my understanding, and what they told me in the past, during several PADI courses I've completed. Now, I see tech a notch more difficult than other courses, and in my opinion, having an instructor that is 100% on you is a good thing (and this one explain also the other divers pace, etc: when i was doing my advance course -for example- I was pretty good with my buoyancy and air consumption, but we had to finish the dives sometimes after 20 minutes -or even less!!- because other students were already out of air or they had terrible buoyancy. you can read this as a cocky argument, but it is what it is).
3) The concerning about the small amount: all the agencies I've checked have the same amount of dives pretty much. My concern is because with the "advanced level" that tech is, I think that it might requires more dive...
4) Yak in the pool: I'm germophobic, but I'm also pretty blind. I also swim a lot, but of course without my glasses, so I don't see all the disgusting things floating in a pool. When I dive I use masks with correction lenses and I can see very well and very clear. The idea of being in a pool and being able to see all the disgusting human debris makes me yak.
There you go, I hope I was clear enough in my answers
KevinNM
Contributor
As a note - GUE will teach open water (Rec I) 1:1. They will not teach Fundamentals or the tech courses 1:1 because the objective is to produce divers who focus on the success and safety of the team, and also there are things you cannot safely do 1:1 that are required in some of the tech courses.
Great thread, I am pretty sure I know what way I am going to go when I finally do get to a point I want to take tech training, But, I have also looked at the PADI sequence along side other sequences and think the baby steps are a good way for people to go, but on the other hand if you are a confident and competent diver who has the skills to handle task loading and what not maybe a more accelerated (for lack of a better word) course is for you. I personally would not sacrifice meticulous in-depth training for a quick class to get deeper. Some courses look to be quick but when you look at the amount of hours spent and time in water and the pre requisite training required its not all that "quick". For instance GUE Fundamentals gives you a strong foundation towards the next step in Tech 1. Where as if a course only required AOW to start say intro to tech or something like that a student could theoretically have only 9 dives under their belts and start the class and even if they are a "rescue" diver that would be only 13 dives. Again great thread.
TrimixToo
Contributor
My 2 PSI:
Baby steps are not bad things. Those who choose accelerated rates of progression into tech should of course be aware that being able to handle task loading and make the right prioritization calls when task loaded is very important. But what's more important to know is that if you add enough tasks in a short enough time, you will eventually fail. If you don't make certain that the task loading remains low enough during normal operations, then when it spikes--that is, when things go pear-shaped--you might not have enough task handling capacity left under stress to succeed. "Succeed," in this context, means "reach the surface, unhurt, with a story to tell."
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