Teaching prisoners to dive...

[Scuba Do]

I think you should understand that a significant percentage of persons in jail are not there for any sort of theft or violent offense. In fact in Texas just under 60% of all people in jail or on probation are there for a non-violent offense.

Here's an example of just how easily this can happen. Lets say you end up losing your job and because of this you can't afford to renew your drivers license. So now you are driving on an expired license and you get pulled over for a headlight that is out. In Texas you have just committed a class A misdemeanor (one step down from a felony) and will be fined between $100 and $500 plus will have to serve a minimum of 3 days in jail and possibly up to 6 months. This doesn't even include lawyer costs, court costs, and the DPS administrative fees which can easily add up to thousands of dollars. What is worse is with that class A on your record finding suitable employment may be very difficult. Even worse is if you get on probation and you can't afford to pay off these fines your probation will be revoked and you will be sent to jail for that 6 months.

It is a horribly vicious cycle started by politicians who want to appear to be tough on crime and end up piling the fines on these "criminals" to help fund their special project of the moment. We need to stop trying to fine to death those who commit petty offenses and start working on the real criminals. Unfortunately anyone trying to correct this situation and help people get out of this cycle is seen as being soft on crime and if they are a politician they would be committing political suicide.

Personally I think training someone with a skill that allows them to be a productive member of society will cost less than letting them keep coming back into the revolving door we call our criminal justice system. I am all in favor of getting people out of jail where they cost tax payers money and back into society where they contribute in the form of taxes. It costs (in Texas) $22,000 to house a single inmate for a year. So even if it cost $10,000 to train someone if we managed to keep them from coming back for a single 6 month period it would save money, plus whatever money they end up contributing from taxes.

I'm all for it.

At the risk of becoming a pariah on SB, that is such a crock (and I have calmed down considerably from my initial reaction). The jails of Texas, or any oher jurisdiction in the United States, is not peopled with individuals who have been law-abiding for a lifetime and merely drove one time on a suspended license. Even if your characterization of the law is correct (what are the Code citations?), for an otherwise law abiding person, there will be NO active jail time. Oh, and by the way, that law is on the books, not to fund pet projects of politicians, but to protect YOU from people who should not be driving (you may disagree with the best way to do that, but that is the reason). While there are certainly numerous people in jail for non-violent crimes, your example is wrong and trivilaizes the entire sytem. Embezzlement, perjury, and fraud are all non-violent crimes. (While we are in Texas, those Enron folks engaged in non-violent crimes). I really do not think those crimes are on the books to pump up pet projects. I have a lot more to say about this, but I will spare everyone. Now can we get back to the purpose of this forum - talking about scuba diving!

 

[Mr.X]

The program which was the brain child of Lenny Greenstone, a popular LA county/NAUI Instructor. Lenny's cousin, Irv Marx, was the assistant warden at Chino. Lenny sold Irv on the idea, Irv sold the powers above him on the idea and the progarm was established in 1970. Lenny organized the program and for several years he provided the equipment and was the only instructor.

As the program expanded Bob Allan an LA County Instructor/Commerical diver was hired and assumed control of the program.

It was not a walk in the park as many have indicated. It was based on the very demanding and difficult LA County program. Many applied and like LA County only a very select few were accepted; those that were accepted were the cream of the crop, both physically and mentally. After acceptance it was diving 24X7X365.

The physical conditioning was very intense and was on going. Very very difficult world class conditioning, equal to or perhaps greater than that experienced by the elete US special forces and it was every day for the duration of the program.

The mental portion was just as extreme. It would be the mental diving equal of obtaining a doctorate or maybe a double doctorate from a major university in "Diving." All aspects of diving was covered in detail. It is certainly accepted that LA area was the fountain head of recreational diving and at that time was populated with world class experts and most of the early pioneers who also gave freely to the program of their knowledge and expertise. When and IF the candidates completed the program they were in every sense of the word scuba/commerical divers, ready and willing to enter into their new profession as a commerical diver.

I had a number of contacts with them, at Chino and as a part time college underwater instructor who had a number in class. It is therefore my opinion I am some what qualified to comment on them and their post encarceration performance, which was outstanding in every aspect. They looked and acted like a diver, they were well prepared mentally and physically and could and would perform any task assigned to them.

It was Tax money well spent.

SDM

FYI there was a book published several years back titled "Prisoneers of the deep" not very well written, certainly not on the best seller list, but it does have a lot so pictures of the facility and the Chino program. sdm

Thanks for providing more info. and depth about this program. From what I remember on video it was a grueling, while being inspirational to those viewing it.
We need more programs like this before troubled teens get into prison.

Cheers,

X

 

[all4scuba05]

prisoners used to be used in mines. talk about cost affective and profits. I'm sure there are ways to get use out of the prisoners that could lessen the tax burden on law abiding citizens. Here, I'll give you a crazy idea. Ten foot chains on an ankle attached to a garbage truck. They jump off and empty your trash can out into the truck. The guard is driving the truck. If this was run by the corrections, prisoners are not getting paid like city workers....much savings.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

This strikes me as a bit naive and assuming things that haven't been stated - I don't think there is any commitment by the prisoners or the State to have the prisoners repay the cost of training. This is a freebie...read "Your tax dollars at work...for someone else"

Sarcasm......

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

prisoners used to be used in mines. talk about cost affective and profits. I'm sure there are ways to get use out of the prisoners that could lessen the tax burden on law abiding citizens. Here, I'll give you a crazy idea. Ten foot chains on an ankle attached to a garbage truck. They jump off and empty your trash can out into the truck. The guard is driving the truck. If this was run by the corrections, prisoners are not getting paid like city workers....much savings.

You might want to put some smileys and winks behind jokes like this. Someone might think you are serious about it my friend!

 

[CAPT HOOK]

This is one more of the dumbest things the state of Calif has come up with.
PUNISH prisoners, don't reward them !

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

This is one more of the dumbest things the state of Calif has come up with.
PUNISH prisoners, don't reward them !

Yeah! Beat them all with sticks and then hope they are happy with society when they are put on the streets again...

 

[Brand0n]

gezzz i should just got thrown in jail instead of spending 16,000$ tuition to go to a commercial dive school.

 

[ianw2]

Yes, it is Chino, California. One of the local New channel did a piece on the program last week.

I saw an interview with one of the first "graduates" of the program some 35 years ago. He just retired. He had dived all over the world for oil companies. He had made a good living and was looking forward to a great retirement. He credited the program for his "reform".

Apparently, the inmates accepted into the program are heavily scrutinized and carefully vetted. One misstep and you’re out. The recidivism rate for graduates of the program is one of the lowest rates for any program.

I balked at the fact that I pay for their training, too. However, upon reflection, I think I’d gladly share the cost of their training if I don’t have to share the cost of their future incarceration. It might just be a heck of a lot cheaper in the end. Besides, once they graduate and get out of jail and into a good paying job, they’ll help foot the bill for future trainees!

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

At the risk of becoming a pariah on SB, that is such a crock (and I have calmed down considerably from my initial reaction). The jails of Texas, or any oher jurisdiction in the United States, is not peopled with individuals who have been law-abiding for a lifetime and merely drove one time on a suspended license. Even if your characterization of the law is correct (what are the Code citations?), for an otherwise law abiding person, there will be NO active jail time. Oh, and by the way, that law is on the books, not to fund pet projects of politicians, but to protect YOU from people who should not be driving (you may disagree with the best way to do that, but that is the reason). While there are certainly numerous people in jail for non-violent crimes, your example is wrong and trivilaizes the entire sytem. Embezzlement, perjury, and fraud are all non-violent crimes. (While we are in Texas, those Enron folks engaged in non-violent crimes). I really do not think those crimes are on the books to pump up pet projects. I have a lot more to say about this, but I will spare everyone. Now can we get back to the purpose of this forum - talking about scuba diving!

I could point out the relevant sections of law, but that would take too long. Here is the DL handbook issued by the state which confirms what I've been saying in regards to penalties.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf

As for your comments about fraud and embezzlement, you are completely right. I don't have a problem putting real criminals away. I on the other hand know 2 people, one fairly well, that are going through the crock of a legal system we have here because they made mistakes in regards to not having a license and insurance. One of them is about to go to jail for probably a year and has had problems finding employment because of the class a offenses on her record. While I do agree she's done something wrong, I don't think the punishment fits the crime.