TDI Advanced Nitrox

[VTWarrenG]

Well, I'm considering taking TDI's Adv. Nitrox course here locally. The cost is $350, and it certifies one to use pure oxygen for deco gas. The course introduces deco, but isn't really supposed to be a "full blown" deco course -- that's to be covered later in another, more expensive course.

Question 1: Should I take this class?

Or should I wait and take GUE's Tech 1 someday? Is the class worth it?

Now, the course uses O2, and needs special equipment. I would probably buy a 40cf cylinder, oxygen clean my ScubaPro MK16/S550, and demote it to oxygen service. I would then purchase an Apeks TX100 reg for primary use. Unfortunately, the shop wants $650 for the TX100!

Question 2: What size cylinder is recommended for O2 as a deco gas? 30-40cf seems correct, but I can't find any hard-and-fast rules in DIR. I'm interesting in staying DIR, and taking GUE's Cave I soon. I want to buy something that will stay useful.

Question 3: Why do online stores sell the same reg for ~$350, but the damn shop wants ALMOST DOUBLE THAT? I understand the warranty and liability issues, but I was expecting the reg to be $400, not $650.

Total, all said and done, from them, I'd be out:

$350, class fee
$155, 40cf cylinder
$650 TX100 first/second
$80, ScubaPro oxygen cleaning and DIN conversion
---------------
$1235

Argh.

Thanks for any advice.

- Warren

 

[Green_Manelishi]

If you want/need the certification and TDI is *convenient* then
by all means take the course. keep in mind that your individual
instructor is not (likely) limited to teaching you MINIMUM skills.
By that I mean the instructor MUST teach to some minimum but
you might receive much more than the minimum. After you
receive the cert (regardless of agency) it is imperative that you
DIVE DIVE DIVE and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

With all that said, I think it not a secret that GUE holds its
students to a VERY high standard of dive-skills in order to
successfully complete a course. Regretably not everyone has
the $$$ or time to train with them.

Regarding the deco bottles, there is NO need for anything
larger than an al40 unless you are diving VERY deep or
VERY long (or you are a horrendous hoover on gas) and you
want to avoid deep and long in OW because s*** happens
and you don't want to rack up a high deco obligation and then have to hang out on a mooring/anchor in a force-10 storm.

AL80s are used in caves or VERY deep/long and controlled
OW dives with LOTS of support personell.

BE safe, stick to AL40s.

G_M

 

[ninja]

Hi Waren.

Tdi has an excellent training program and it certainly is not easy and also depending on your instructor he will bring forth alot of experience and be able to add to the course outline. Certifications are EARNED not given forget everything you learned from your main certification agency.

My instructor was not only a TDI instructor but was trained GUE and DIR style plus with his experience in cave deep wreck trimix and overhead enviorment had alot to throw on the table and he also went past the minimum requirements. This is what makes a good instructor.

Remember that GUE is not the end all of Technical Diving they are just another good training agency!! I'm lucky to have benefited from an instructor who has been through all of it so I suggest to you to take the TDI training if it is more convenient just find an instructor who comes highly recommended and ask how he runs his course and check on his credentials you may be surprised.

Although get ready for some major hours I spent one whole weekend 36hours just class room. We then did another day of gear rigging DIR style. 2 sessions in the pool, follwed by a weekend in the Quarry valve shut downs and all that kind of fun stuff. Next we did some mock decompression dives and a load of skills . Than we did the real thing gas switching and hell dives are the best. sharing air comming out of overhead enviroments, reel training etc, etc, etc.

Just remember if you finish it in a weekend YOU DEFINATELY missed something mine was a 6 month process mixed in with
snow so stick with and enjoy. You will learn to dive all over again.

Trimix isn't much different except you will be adding an extra bottle or two depending on your depth and time and stops!!

Have fun with it .

NINJA:ninja:

 

[VTWarrenG]

I hold an NACD Cavern cert, which covered much of what you got, ninja. I also hold a TDI Nitrox cert, so I understand the concept that I won't pass unless I'm really ready.

This class is certainly not 6 months long -- it's two night classes and four dives. I have no idea how you managed to find an instructor who combined overhead training with deco training, but it smells like a horrible idea to me. I'll have to assume it cost you $18,000 too.

I don't want my teacher spending six months meandering all through the sport of diving. You learn overhead in an overhead class. You learn deco in a deco class. You put them together only in very advanced classes like Cave II.

- Warren

 

[ninja]

Warren,

Advanced nitrox is useless without deco procedures that is why most people offer them as a whole course but yes you do get two certifications. Because of our seasons up here in canada you can start your classroom and pool sessions in late winter and start all the other stuff through spring and summer Tdi has a minimum of four dives!!! (MINIMUM) stadards only I did 8 decompression dives with skills and so on. If you have your cave this should be a breeze!!

Advanced nitorox only teaches you how to properly plan and utilize 100% oxygen for deco, therefore logic would dictate you would need a deco course to learn how to safely conduct deco dives.

Is Gue better than Tdi probably not ! Is Tdi better than gue probably not!! See where we are going with this. Does Padi as a training agency certifiy some of the worst divers or is NAUI better? Padi probaby does statistically because they have a 70% market share in recreational diving therefore statistically it is likely to happen. It comes down to the instructor, mine happend to offer some overhead wreck diving skills and techniques.

Besides diving in LAKE ERIE is a drag sometimes weather blows you off more than you get out and it's alittle hard to squeeze that many dives in couple weekends that is why it took us roughly 6 months!!

And with your cave training you can certainaly apply those techniques to wrecks your well on your way!

Peace NINJA:ninja:

 

[Lost Yooper]

Warren,

I hold the TDI Adv. Nitrox cert. I am not a fan of TDI at all which isn't a secret around here. If you want the most efficient training, go with GUE. They wrap up a bunch of stuff in a single class which is the only realistic way to go about it. If GUE is an option, don't think twice about it -- I wish I could have.

If you're going with TDI, quiz the heck out of the instructor. If he answers "yes" to the following questions, beware:

Do you teach, conduct, or advocate the use of deeps air (100' END)? If so, he's totally clueless and dangerous to you in some form or another, IMO.
Do you utilize deep stops? If not, he hasn't kept up and is clueless.
Do you use 80% as a deco gas? Again, probably clueless unless he says he's very sensitive to high PPO2.

Ask him what he thinks of DIR and find out how he configures his gear. If you're going DIR, then it would help to train with someone DIR configured.
Ask him what he thinks of GUE and "feel out" his response. Be wary of hostility.
Ask him what kind of deco software he uses. If he seems clueless or says he relies on a computer, beware.

The bottom line is that there are good instructors who have a good head on their shoulders -- even if the heads of their agency don't. Learning bad habits is very bad, so be wary of that.


A 40cf bottle is a great size bottle.

I don't know why it's $650 for the TX100. You can get that reg for $300 any day of the week.

Take care.

Mike

PS. Let me know if you want more questions to ask your instructor.

 

[VTWarrenG]

Hmmm... actually I will argue that GUE is significantly, undebatably, better than TDI.

I went and browsed through the TDI Adv. Nitrox book, and I didn't like what I saw. Being a fierce advocate of DIR and the WKPP, I've decided to pass on the TDI courses, and instead wait for the next GUE courses scheduled my area. They're not advertised, so I had to spend some time researching them. I'm sure Tech 1 will be much more useful than TDI's equivalent string of six courses. One of my goals in my diving career is to be a support diver for the WKPP. TDI will certainly not get me there. Wish me luck.

- Warren

 

[Lost Yooper]

Good choice .

Good luck!

Mike

 

[VTWarrenG]

LY,

Thanks, man, you said it. Luckily I hadn't paid for that TDI course yet.

Deep air sucks. Gilliam sucks because he likes (and advocates) deep air.

VPM and microbubble theories are supplanting Haldanean models... deep stops are important.

"Only strokes use 80/20."

My next choice is to determine whether or not I actually need to take DIRF. People say that I'll likely have trouble passing Tech 1 if I don't have DIRF... but I honestly believe I know enough to pass at least the written test, and I -most likely- am prepared in the water, too.... I need to sit down with an instructor and discuss the possibility. Those GUE courses ain't cheap.

....and to take Tech 1, I need to get doubles, as well as TWO stage/deco bottles. That's THREE MORE REGS!! AHHHHHHHH!!!

...and yeah, I'm just gonna buy the TX100's online. I told the diveshop guy I'd pay $450 for them, just to support the diveshop (I like them). He said no.... so, well, he loses. I can buy two online for the same price he wants for one -- and if the first one breaks, I can throw it away and start using the second.

- Warren

 

[Lost Yooper]

Yeah, the GUE classes aren't cheap, but it's cheaper than paying for a dozen classes just to get to trimix .

Gasses, mixing, and deco procedures is all theory and can be learned very "easily". DIRF and TECH 1 will actually teach you how to dive efficiently as well as the theory stuff.

The diving you're going into isn't cheap even if you buy everything at discount (which is what I do). Get what you need, buy quality, and keep learning from the best. You know where to find the tutors . Just get the ole credit card out and do it right from the get go.

Do you have the manuals? Good stuff .

Take care.

Mike