Tank fills for AL6351 tanks

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2airishuman

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I recently purchased a used cylinder made in the mid 1980s from AL6351 alloy. The price was so right I'll come out OK even if I sell it for scrap. The cylinder has a still-valid hydro stamp with VE endorsement and a recently expired VIP sticker annotated to indicate that an eddy current test was performed at the time of the VIP.

I believe that the science behind the failures is sound and that periodic eddy current testing provides a degree of safety comparable to other cylinders.

What is the current situation regarding fills? Will most shops fill these tanks if they are properly tested?
 
I recently purchased a used cylinder made in the mid 1980s from AL6351 alloy. The price was so right I'll come out OK even if I sell it for scrap. The cylinder has a still-valid hydro stamp with VE endorsement and a recently expired VIP sticker annotated to indicate that an eddy current test was performed at the time of the VIP.

I believe that the science behind the failures is sound and that periodic eddy current testing provides a degree of safety comparable to other cylinders.

What is the current situation regarding fills? Will most shops fill these tanks if they are properly tested?


That really depends on the Shop. Some will not fill 6351 tanks at all, however there are plenty that will. Personally, I will fill them as long as the Eddy is done each year. other folks have different levels of risk acceptance. If the shop has a containment system, which they should have anyway if they are smart, they shouldn't have any objections to filling them.
 
Directly answering your question, there has been no documented catastrophic failure of a properly inspected 6351-T6 alloy scuba tank due to sustained load cracking since the eddy current inspection protocols were adopted.

There have been a few cases of properly inspected 6351 T-6 alloy tanks leaking through the shoulder (*more on that below), but again, none have catastrophically failed due to sustained load cracking since the eddy current protocols began being used.

To put the number of pre-eddy current failures and the overall risk in perspective, there were 25 million 6351 T6 alloy tanks made, and a grand total of 19 catastrophically failed, 15 in the US and 4 abroad. That's a failure rate of .000076%. In comparison over the same time period there have been 24 catastrophic failures of steel tanks (due to improper inspection, pitting, etc) - and almost no mention of steel tanks being "dangerous".

Sustained load crack propagation is very slow and the five year interval between re-qualification of 3AL tanks is sufficient to catch that.

* Now...there is one small problem with how 6351 T6 tanks are requalified. For efficiency purposes nearly all RINs perform the visual inspection first - based on the logic that it makes no sense to hydro test a tank that won't pass the visual inspection. The problem is that the eddy current test is done during the visual portion of the requalification. I have personally observed tanks pass the visual eddy portion of a requalification and then have a previously undetectable crack propagate during the hydro test portion of the requalification. In one case, the tank failed through such a crack during the hydro test and came out spitting water through the crack.

My take away on this as it pertains to the local dive shop setting, is to ensure the local dive shop also does an annual eddy current inspection using the Flare Technologies Visual Eddy instrument, the AIT Visual Plus instrument, OR performs an enhanced visual inspection using a Thread Inspection Pipe or the Flare Optic Viewer. Both of the latter visual inspection techniques will detect a crack long before it propagates to the point of failure, and one or the other should also be used to confirm Visual Eddy or Visual Plus results to guard against false positives that occur when poorly trained or over zealous staff find a "crack" during an eddy current inspection. In many cases it's not a crack at all, but rather a normal fold from the manufacturing process.

More importantly, the shop's role with 6351 T6 tanks is to backstop the RIN by performing an additional eddy current or enhanced visual inspection to detect a crack that may have become visible during the hydro test phase of requalification (after the RIN did the required Visual Eddy inspection) as RINs in general are hard headed and don't see the logic of doing the VE inspection last, and the CGA and DOT aren't requiring the VE be done last.

----

With all that said as a qualifier, there is no reason for a shop not to do a thorough visual inspection of a properly re-qualified 6351-T6 tank and keep it in service.

However, some shops won't. Sometimes that is based on ignorance and out of control liability fears. In other cases it may be because they lack the equipment to do and eddy current or enhanced visual inspection in the first place. Sometimes, they just want to sell you a new tank, particularly if they have one in stock and getting 18 months or so past it's manufacture date.

What I really don't understand is that some RINs are now refusing to requalify 6351 T6 tanks. That might just be a bad case of lazy, or it may also be due to unfounded fear of liability if they inspect a tank that then fails (a near zero probability event based on the numbers from the pre-eddy current years, and a zero probability event based on the post eddy current numbers).
 
Ya good luck most shops here in MI will not fill them any longer, all saying liability reasons so don't buy anything made before 90' they make good bells if you cut off the bottom though!!!
 
This one is a loser. I have one that is 6351 and one that is questionable. Both in nearly new condition. It hurts me, but I think I will get rid of them. The chance of a failure is nil but the publicity is bad. I wish I could buy a car that had that catastrofic failure rate.
 
I recently purchased a used cylinder made in the mid 1980s from AL6351 alloy. The price was so right I'll come out OK even if I sell it for scrap. The cylinder has a still-valid hydro stamp with VE endorsement and a recently expired VIP sticker annotated to indicate that an eddy current test was performed at the time of the VIP. . . . What is the current situation regarding fills? Will most shops fill these tanks if they are properly tested?
As several have said, it really depends on the shop. They don't 'have to', and some choose not to, calculating that the lost business is trivial. Call it ignorance, subjectivity, or conservative interpretation of available data, it doesn't matter. For what it is worth, MOST shops that I am aware of do NOT (unfortunately) have a containment system in their fill area, and I can understand why they are saying the risk - irrespective of how small - and the consequent liability, are just not worth it, considering how few 6351 cylinders are still out there.
pinshotr:
most shops here in MI will not fill them any longer, all saying liability reasons so don't buy anything made before 90'
And, there are 'pockets' of shops in selected metropolitan areas that have essentially informally agreed that none of them will fill 6351s, and in some cases none of them will fill any AL cylinder made before 1990.

I work with a shop where we have 12-15 6351s in our student / rental inventory. And, we maintain an AIT unit (original Visual Plus), and I eddy them each year, along with the ~5 that come in from customers). Plus, I happen to own a 'real' T.I.P (no longer made as far as I can tell) and that adds to my level of comfort. The cost of annual Visual Plus calibration probably exceeds the 'value' we get from using them. But, ownership has elected to continue to use them.

I am not trying to start an argument, but I have to say that i have trouble understanding a scenario where the price could be 'so right', even if they were given to me. They are more nuisance than they are worth.
 
I am not trying to start an argument, but I have to say that i have trouble understanding a scenario where the price could be 'so right', even if they were given to me. They are more nuisance than they are worth.

Well, perhaps that's the answer. I'm not a shop so I don't have to figure out how to pay for calibration and maintenance of the inspection equipment. For me it's just a matter of figuring out which shops will VIP, VE, and fill them.

I have a finite budget for diving, and new tanks are expensive. I've watched ebay (nationwide) and craigslist (locally) and good deals on used tanks are few and far between. I anticipate buying new HP steel tanks for most uses. I anticipate that there will be situations where I occasionally could benefit from an extra tank -- equipment checks and maintenance, loaning equipment to a buddy, series of dives where there is no dive shop nearby for air fills, etc.
 
Keep the valves and sell the tanks for aluminum scrap. They used to be worth something, not sure now with commodities going down, but they certainly are not worth the trouble of dragging them into the dive shop and having to be lectured to about how these old tanks will explode if you look at them wrong. :coffee:
 

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