Takeoff from Tech-Scuba Mix

[Carribeandiver]

Another thread I read with interest was questioning whether there was a cross over in tech diving skills into recreational dive training. Secondly, the poster questioned whether this should be allowed and whether this was good.
First, you betcha it should and ought to be allowed. In fact, it should be mandatory.
Maybe I am in the minority but after OW training I was clueless about buoyancy and I didnt even know what the term trim meant, let alone able to reach it. And gas planning, dive planning, how many of us could sit down with tables in hand and plan a dive? Heck, how many could actually record the dive information after the dive?
I am not talking about using your computer to calculate max depth, etc. I am talking about knowing your limits, your MOD, etc before the dive.
This notion that newly certified divers are only required to know enough to get by is ridiculous, dangerous and leads to a high percentage of quitters. People may want to be certified but once they are, they realize they are a danger to themselves and their buddies.
Do we need technical diving techniques incorporated in recreational dive training? Well, if buoyancy and trim skills, gas planning and other safety techniques are considered technical diving, then I resoundingly say we BETTER incorporate tech training with recreational training.

 

[ArcticDiver]

...This notion that newly certified divers are only required to know enough to get by is ridiculous, dangerous and leads to a high percentage of quitters. People may want to be certified but once they are, they realize they are a danger to themselves and their buddies...

While I respect your right to an opinion, available incident and accident data do not support the statement that current training practice produces dangerous divers.

If a new diver realizes they are a danger to themselves and they really want to dive it seems the most reasonable response is to get more training, or to complain to their instructor that they didn't do a good job, not quit. In fact there are many reasons why a new diver quits diving. You can rest assured that if there was only one reason the folks who make a living off the divers would have already corrected it. It is in their best interests to do so.

 

[Guba]

Every time I see statements like "if buoyancy and trim skills, gas planning and other safety techniques are considered technical diving, then I resoundingly say we BETTER incorporate tech training with recreational training..." I grow confused. These are technical issues? Shoot, then my OW course was, indeed, technical! I hear over and over again how substandard so-and-so's OW course was, or AOW, for that matter. I always ask the same question in my mind..."Who are you guys training with?" And I'm not talking agency, either. I mean what PERSON, what instructor did you get trained by? I've had three different instructors for three different levels of training, and they ALL taught the skills mentioned. Certainly, it was in various degress and appropriate to our level of understanding at the time, but they were part of the course.
Is this a good thing? Certainly. I think courses should stay up with the technology and improved knowledge of what diving is all about. Scuba is an evolving sport/activity. We need to be ready to change as improvements in data and hardware are made.

 

[String]

There's too much marketting towards the warm fuzzy, smiling faces hiding the risks. Yes it gets people in through the door but they qualify with the wrong mental attitude then. Things CAN go wrong, things DO go wrong and that needs to be emphasised far more in training.

 

[djanni]

Another thread I read with interest was questioning whether there was a cross over in tech diving skills into recreational dive training. Secondly, the poster questioned whether this should be allowed and whether this was good.
First, you betcha it should and ought to be allowed. In fact, it should be mandatory.
Maybe I am in the minority but after OW training I was clueless about buoyancy and I didnt even know what the term trim meant, let alone able to reach it. And gas planning, dive planning, how many of us could sit down with tables in hand and plan a dive? Heck, how many could actually record the dive information after the dive?
I am not talking about using your computer to calculate max depth, etc. I am talking about knowing your limits, your MOD, etc before the dive.
This notion that newly certified divers are only required to know enough to get by is ridiculous, dangerous and leads to a high percentage of quitters. People may want to be certified but once they are, they realize they are a danger to themselves and their buddies.
Do we need technical diving techniques incorporated in recreational dive training? Well, if buoyancy and trim skills, gas planning and other safety techniques are considered technical diving, then I resoundingly say we BETTER incorporate tech training with recreational training.

Bouyancy Control, Trim, Gas Management and Dive Planning are not Technical Diving Skills. I don't even know where you got such an idea. Those are very basic diving skills that I thought everyone was tought during OW training.

It sounds like the OW and/or AOW training you got was pretty weak. I hate that for you. Fortunately for me, my training, even at the OW level, was far more thorough than what you appear to have gotten.

Now to apply the real world... shortly after getting certified I bought dive computers for my wife and I and haven't planned a dive or worried about gas management since. However, we both have very good bouyancy control and we take pride in our trim.

If I was a technical diver heading for a wreck 200 feet down and planning to penetrate deeply into the wreck then you can be assurred that I would know how to plan the dive and manage my gas (without relying on a computer) and I would have the appropriate training and use the appropriate gear.

 

[String]

I cant see how gas planning only becomes an issue at depth.

 

[deepblueme]

"high percentage of quitters"

My first class way back in the good old days of 1980 was 12 Sundays long 6 hours each day. We even learned to plan Deco stops and SAC/gas managment.

My buddy and I were the only people to take AOW/Slam/Rescue out of 12 people.

Even back then people didn't keep diving after learning for their vacation.
So your statment is silly to me.

The vast majority of people that learn to dive do so for a vacation so no matter what you train them or how very few will stick with diving, those that do most likely will become better divers either by finding decent buddys or taking con'ed classes.

 

[spectrum]

I considered my OW training, in fact most of my subsequent training as well to be shallow beyond my expectations. (no pun intended) What helped tremendously was being a ScubaBoard junkie for about 9 months before we even started. I devoured every available Dive Training Magazine including back issues and several additional OW text books while waiting and more since.

Before I ever got in the pool I had an uncanny visualization of the diver I wanted to be. With some tips from mentors I was soon well on my way. After a while there came to be a "divers mindset" where you start to see things in the right perspective and make decisions based on the right stuff. At least I try.

The topics that get beaten to death on this forum are real and important things that no text I have laid my hands on gives more than a cursory treatment to. What you decide to do or how you do it is not just a matter of understanding that option but the rejected options as well.

I know other divers who have worked intensely to further their knowledge and understanding and it pays off. I know others that barely show up for an occasional dive and for lack of comfort will probably not go the distance with the sport.

The dive now and learn later training model may be great for selling OW cards and initial gear. I have to wonder if the sport would have a larger stronger core if the bar to entry were raised a little higher in academics and skill depth. I don't know if we need a return to harassment training but we can surely demand more than the status quo.

Pete

 

[djanni]

I cant see how gas planning only becomes an issue at depth.

How do you define Gas Planning?

I thought it was to consider the dive one wants to make; i.e., the depth and for how long at that depth and then assure you have enough gas to make the dive.

If I'm doing a couple of rec dives, as deep as 90' on the first and as deep as 50' on the second, all I need to worry about is surfacing with about 500psi. My botton time is the variable. If I get 30 minutes on that first dive or if it's 20 minutes it doesn't matter for me.

If I'm going 200 feet and need to be at that depth for say 10 minutes then I guess I better do some gas planning.

 

[rawls]

After a while there came to be a "divers mindset" where you start to see things in the right perspective and make decisions based on the right stuff. At least I try

That short simple statement contains a book worth of wisdom.