Swim Test?

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...and people wonder why I hate PADI...

Works both ways, yes it prevents more prudent instructors adding useful material to the course.

BUT it also stops over zealous control freaks creating a beasting course thats of no benefit to the student what so ever.

I've seen both sides in action and the latter is a real problem with some places.

 

[northen diver]

It's very possible that the instructor had prior knowledge of the students swimming abilities. I wonder if an instructor would require Mark Spitz to make the swim to pass his OW. I doubt it.

My youngest son was on the swim team and he had a hard time with his 50 feet underwater swim. He aint no Michael Phelps or Mark Spitz though

 

[Lead_carrier]

It's very possible that the instructor had prior knowledge of the students swimming abilities. I wonder if an instructor would require Mark Spitz to make the swim to pass his OW. I doubt it.

If the instructor wanted to stay within standards they'd have to give Mark Spitz, Ester Williams, Tarzan or Flipper a swim test. I haven't seen anything in any set of standards that allows "instructor discretion", but I am not up to speed on all agencys standards either.

 

[northen diver]

If the instructor wanted to stay within standards they'd have to give Mark Spitz, Ester Williams, Tarzan or Flipper a swim test. Rightly or wrongly, I haven't seen anything in any set of standards that allows "instructor discretion".

Not even for Ester Williams. She is HOT!!!!

 

[Jack'sDivingLocker]

It's very possible that the instructor had prior knowledge of the students swimming abilities. I wonder if an instructor would require Mark Spitz to make the swim to pass his OW. I doubt it.

If they want representation from their insurance provider and certification agency in the unlikely event of a lawsuit, they would definitely ask Mark Spitz to do the swim test. I'm sure Mark wouldn't mind.

I've had people in my Rescue and EFR classes who are doctors and experienced lifeguards. They don't seem to have a problem demonstrating how to splint a fractured arm or do CPR...they know they are taking a course that requires those skills (even though they are already WELL qualified).

 

[Teamcasa]

If the instructor wanted to stay within standards they'd have to give Mark Spitz, Ester Williams, Tarzan or Flipper a swim test. I haven't seen anything in any set of standards that allows "instructor discretion", but I am not up to speed on all agencys standards either.

I am not an instructor nor do I pretend to be one so bear with my question.
Does the instructor have to see the actual swim test or do have to simply attest to their students swimming abilities?

OTOH, I doubt Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps would have a problem doing a few laps just to get past the test.

 

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I've not yet come across someone more qualified than me complain or refuse to do something such as EFR/First aid to doctors and nurses and i have asked someone that used to represent Texas in swimming to do the swim test.

Generally people dont mind showing they meet the standard at all from my experience.

Yes its sometimes a bit awkward trying to show for example a doctor how to splint an arm when they clearly know more than you do but everyone i've come across has been quite happy to sit there, listen, demonstrate without any sarcastic comments or "im above all that" refusal.

 

[Jack'sDivingLocker]

Works both ways, yes it prevents more prudent instructors adding useful material to the course.

BUT it also stops over zealous control freaks creating a beasting course thats of no benefit to the student what so ever.

I've seen both sides in action and the latter is a real problem with some places.

An enthusiastic instructor can add value, humor, personal experience, and all kinds of enrichment to a PADI course. I believe the intent is to not add additional skills or make skills harder than the requirements. PADI students are required to MASTER the skill...not just barely get through it. If the students master the material and the skills, then they have completed the course and should be awarded a certification card.

If an instructor makes a skill harder, modifies the skill, or adds his/her own skills....and the student gets injured or dies during that process, it would be hard to justify in a lawsuit. "Why did you decide to have Billy swim 100 feet underwater with a brick in his hand and no mask?" "Well, I REALLY wanted to make sure he was comfortable in the water."..........

I don't hate any certification agencies. I respect all of them. They each have their own "personality" and "style". None, in my opinion, are worth the word "hate". There are agencies to fit every type of diver (and instructor!). They all do a good job of promoting a safe and fun experience. And we're all aiming for the same thing...introducing people the amazing world of diving.

Have fun out there!

 

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If an instructor makes a skill harder, modifies the skill, or adds his/her own skills....and the student gets injured or dies during that process, it would be hard to justify in a lawsuit. "Why did you decide to have Billy swim 100 feet underwater with a brick in his hand and no mask?" "Well, I REALLY wanted to make sure he was comfortable in the water."..........

Thats the main issue and i have actually come across some people who did invent equally as pointless tasks to "get someone comfortable" hence the problem. There is a boundary between adding relevant and useful information and just making tasks much harder than an entry level diver actually needs creating artificial barriers to qualification.

You can teach extra stuff not part of the course but they cant be passed or failed on it - its purely an optional extra. Here for example delayed SMB use is generally done regardless even though its not part of the core course. You can do things like that without breaking standards. You CAN extend, you just cant assess on that.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

It's very possible that the instructor had prior knowledge of the students swimming abilities. I wonder if an instructor would require Mark Spitz to make the swim to pass his OW. I doubt it.

I would I had one class that was comprised, for the most part, of members of the university swim team. Sometimes they don't understand why they have to pass the swim test like everyone else, I tell them to consider it an extra workout

Every student that comes in my class does a 12 minute swim using any stroke but no hanging on the lane markers or stopping to rest. We don't enforce a distance requirement but most of them go 200 yards or so in that amount of time. Then they get their first shot at the 75 foot underwater swim, they have until the end of the 10 week session to get this part and have never had anyone fail to pass it. We send them to the deep end after that for a 15 minute float immediately followed by a 5 minute tread. I like to get them chatting about diving during the tread and I don't stop the timer until someone asks if the 5 minutes are up---the last class was treading for 13 minutes before anyone spoke up (Hey, I don't get paid much so I go for entertainment value)
Ber :lilbunny: