Supplements and Diving

[gulfdvr68]

Can supplements such as NO2 affect diving? Will it make you more susceptible to DCS? I'll be waiting your responses.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Are you talking about the bodybuilding supplement called "NO2"?

If so, it's advertised benefits include accelerated muscle growth, improved muscle recovery, and increased strength.
As far as I know, none of these claims have been sufficiently proven by any clinical trials. Several marketing materials cite a Baylor clinical study. I downloaded the paper and read it. It's interesting but the findings aren't impressive at all.
I think that the same guy (Ed Byrd) who introduced creatine to bodybuilding community also developed NO2 supplement.

If NO2 works the way the company says it does -- via extended, amplified release of the nitric oxide precursors (likely molecules related to arginine, possibly L-arginine alpha-ketoglutarate) which are then converted to nitric oxide (NO), causing vasodilation of blood vessels feeding muscles -- I can think of several reasons why NO2 supplement can actually be dangerous. At the top of the list would be systemic hypotension (low blood pressure).

As a mechanistic side note, for the most part, NO production within the body is regulated by the expression of the enzymes responsible for its production (nitric oxide synthases)...not varying levels of NO precursors.

NO has been a hot topic in the neuroscience research community for the past few years. NO has been demonstrated to have a number of very important functions in molecular pathways regulating cell differentiation, growth, and survival. In the context of scuba diving, NO-mediated mechanisms may underlie DCS pathogenesis, narcosis, and oxygen toxicity. If NO2 supplement has a real effect on blood flow and blood flow is important for on-/off-gassing of nitrogen (inert), then, theoretically I suppose it could affect DCS susceptibility. I have no idea the direction or the magnitude of the effect, though.

In an objective cost-benefit analysis, no evidence exists to support the claims that NO2 supplement helps people build muscle mass, while there are many unknowns with regard to "side effect" risks.

Does flooding one's body with NO precursors sound like a good idea? Not in my opinion.

 

[gulfdvr68]

Yes, I was refering to the muscle building NO2. I was thinking that some divers smoke which the use of tobacco products causes the blood vessels to constrict and there doesn't seem to be too many problems with that now, NO2 will actually or "should" increase blood flow. Would that maybe help in on/off gasing?

 

[danvolker]

A supplement that "would" be worthwhile would be one that promotes hydration. The correct electrolyte mix , with around a 3 to one carb to protein ratio, pushes water into your cells much more effectively than water alone. A bad example of this would be Gatorade, which has huge amounts of sodium and tiny amounts of potassium ( it should be twice as much potassium as sodium) AND has huge amounts of sugar - easily enough to cause insulin sinsitivity and diabetes.

Products like Alacer's electromix have the electolyte part down very well, and are easy to bring with you. A complete solution, perhaps the best I've seen, is H2O Overdrive.... see h2ooverdrive.com
When used on a long diving day, I stay perfectly hydrated so deco issues are safer, I don't end up feeling weak or hungry after each dive, ( drink it before and after each dive) , and I have far more energy AFTER diving for the rest of the day....could be less osmotic stress from better offgassing with optimal hydration---could be just better nutrition throughout a dive day--less fluctuations of blood sugar, and the after effects low blood sugar will provide.

DanV

 

[FritzCat66]

I don't know about NO2, but I think a little supervised N₂O shoreside makes a great simulation for dealing with nitrogen narcosis at depth. Seriously! Very similar experience, IMO.

 

[TSandM]

AND has huge amounts of sugar - easily enough to cause insulin sinsitivity and diabetes.

Just wanted to interject that sugar itself has never been shown to cause insulin resistance or diabetes. Acute sugar intake, in some people, can cause a sawtooth profile for blood glucose, with a rapid rise and rapid fall, that can make you feel hungrier than you were before. But it does not lead to persistent, sustained high glucose levels, although the obesity that comes with diets high in sugar can certainly do it.

 

[DevonDiver]

A bad example of this would be Gatorade, which has huge amounts of sodium and tiny amounts of potassium ( it should be twice as much potassium as sodium) AND has huge amounts of sugar - easily enough to cause insulin sinsitivity and diabetes.

I was once told that Gatorade diluted 50/50 with water, was of approximately the same composition as the Oral Rehydration Salts (ORS) mix recommended by the UN World Health Organization. I can't find a reference for that online now though

 

[danvolker]

I was once told that Gatorade diluted 50/50 with water, was of approximately the same composition as the Oral Rehydration Salts (ORS) mix recommended by the UN World Health Organization. I can't find a reference for that online now though

If you had no choice but to use gatorade, a 50/50 mix with water would be the way to go....it would still not fix the incorrect relationship of sodium to potassium...you should have twice the potassium to the sodium, and for serious exertion ( say on fast paced bike ride on A1A in Florida for a few hours) you would be wanting over 400 mg of potassium per hour. Since gatorade has little potassium, and huge sodium...the issue is....sodium pulls water out of your muscles, potassium pulls water into your muscle cells...the idea of good hydration is to get more water into the intracellular portion of your body, where it will help you..Water sitting extracellularly, is not helping your muscles, core temperature, or metabolism.
When you consider that Gatorade has been selling a product with such a massive amount of sugar ( clearly an insulin sensitivity threat to nearly anyone) , and the choice to do this would seem to be that a high sugar drink SELLS BIG at stores, it would not be likely that such a company cares much about the product doing any hydration at all.
To me, Gatorade is the "nutritional equivalent" of smoking cigarettes

Regards,
Dan

 

[DevonDiver]

Since gatorade has little potassium, and huge sodium...the issue is....sodium pulls water out of your muscles, potassium pulls water into your muscle cells...the idea of good hydration is to get more water into the intracellular portion of your body, where it will help you..

I have no scientific understanding of the process... but I would assume that the sodium only pulls water out of the cells if it reaches a certain level/strength of concentration within the body.

If the body was losing sodium in the process of persperation, that sodium is necessary to replace sodium...never building the concentration enough, that body fluids are needed to remove it from the body?

To me, Gatorade is the "nutritional equivalent" of smoking cigarettes

A quick google shows that numerous clinical/scientific test point to an agreement that Gatorade is generally preferable than water for sportsmen. Hard to compare it to cigarettes in that case?!

 

[danvolker]

I have no scientific understanding of the process... but I would assume that the sodium only pulls water out of the cells if it reaches a certain level/strength of concentration within the body.

Yes, it is related to equilibrium, and this includes relationships with many other minerals, like potassium, calcium, magnesium and more.

If the body was losing sodium in the process of persperation, that sodium is necessary to replace sodium...never building the concentration enough, that body fluids are needed to remove it from the body?

The problem is the wrong mix in a sports drink, can cause more problems....aside from the poor hydration potential ( compared to good sports drinks) of Gatorade, the massive amount of sugar in the typical full gatorade bottle a thirsty person would drink, is going to cause a huge insulin spike.....large insulin spikes are among the MOST unhealthy effects any form of food can cause. If you WANTED to get diabetes, certainly drinking Gatorade frequently throughout the day would be one powerful way to obtain the constant insulin spikes associated with insulin sensitivity....and once you have the insulin sensitivity, diabetes is nearly knocking at the door





regards,
DanV