stupid(?) decision still feels right

[erichK]

According to your post, I can see how you lost sight/contact of/with the group, but how did the group miss you? Any idea? I would think that a group of divers waiting for an individual would be quite attentive. If I saw someone in my group, drop to the bottom, I would be concerned enough to alert a buddy or DM.

When you signaled the group on the line that you were o.k. did they all just swim off or something and not watch?

Not questioning anyone's actions, I would just like to hear from you how this unfolded.

Sean

Oh, they did absolutely the right thing and stayed on the line, ten or fifteen feet below the surface, until the DM (and they) finally became pissed off with what he saw as my playing on the bottom and ignoring them, and swam off to do their dive. That's the whole point. They saw me and especially my bubbles, and after they started swimming away, my flashes. But I could not see them, both because of the angle of the sun and the brightness of the surface, which they were close to, and the fact that their bubbles were far above me . If I'd swum to the mooring line, which was far from vertical and now at the edge of my vision, I probably would have seen them above me. I *thought* that they'd simply gone ahead with their dive, and was actually a bit miffed myself, when I had to decide that given the unknown site and location in the open ocean, I'd better stay close to the boat above me, instead.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Gotta tell ya, I think you did every wrong move you could have done in that situation. It's one lousy argument that the diving is expensive there! You should have been at the surface in a minute if you loose your buddy/group. Now that's rule #1, never forget it!

In a group dive with one experienced DM + a bunch of "tourists", the tourists tend to leave everything up to the DM. If the DM didn't see where you went, you are lost from the group. The others aren't looking out for you.

"Rick Inman" points it out well, a good buddy is better than any DM and his/her group for safety. We have a different tradition over here in Norway. The dive leader stays in the boat for surface safety, because that's where you should end up if in trouble! We dive in pairs, each pair with a planned dive time which the dive leader notes. -And you'd better be up when you should!!! Each pair dive on their own, and take care of themselves.

 

[erichK]

as a certified scuba diver you are responsible for your self. If something happens after someone helps you then, while they might have messed you up, you should have rechecked your own gear.

NEVER RUSH.

**Your absolutely right. Unfortunately, there were some family/spousal politics with a nervous partner involved. And, because I've got less than 80 dives in using such new items such as BC's, auxillary regs, computers, drysuits, etc, and am getting on a bit, I am something of a slowpoke, conscious of holding up others, especially when I'm also using a camera.

when you lost your weight pocket, didn't you know how much weight was in it? Why would you accept a weight belt that had more(or less) weight than what was in your weight pocket from the boat? NEVER RUSH.

Of course and I asked for the same eight pounds, but agreed to two more pounds, because it was a choice between 5 and ten pounds, and I wanted to be sure to have enough lead to do my safety stop with a much lighter tank, later. I should have put a bit more air in my BC on coming up. Another old, pre-BC habit that also come out of early pre-BC diiving and years of swimming, teaching swimming and snorkelling is to fin up and down, using the BC mainly as a neutral buoyancy aid at depth and as a surface flotation device, which I did not want to do, on that occasion. (Had I done so, I would of course, have had to solve my problem and find my inflator hose *before* I started descending.)

You're absolutely right: I should have taken the time to check my gear: both times!

 

[Uncle Pug]

Apparently, the group which I'd rushed not to inconvenience had stayed waiting at the line for many minutes after seeing me descend, and then periodically seen my flash go off.

Wow... what if you were incapacitated on the bottom and using your camera flash to try and attract the DMs attention for help... he didn't even come to see what the problem was.

I'm glad you were able to self-rescue.

 

[Sean C]

With that said and acknowledging that you did somethings that I would never do, I would be pretty concerned with the actions of the DM & group. Someone, your buddy/guide/DM/other diver, should have taken the intiative and established contact with you.

 

[Xanthro]

Wow... what if you were incapacitated on the bottom and using your camera flash to try and attract the DMs attention for help... he didn't even come to see what the problem was.

I'm glad you were able to self-rescue.

That was mine concern reading as well. Perhaps though, the DM could see him clearly swimming around and taking pictures and it was obvious that he wasn't in trouble, but still it seems odd nobody came to investigate a diver who accidently decends to the bottom.

 

[Hoya97]

You know, I wasn't going to say anything, but I tend to agree with Sean and Uncle Pug. You decended and lost contact with the DM and the rest of the group. You looked for them and didn't find them. Everything was under control and you weren't going deeper than the 60 foot mark. Hmmmm

Why didn't the DM go down to 'assist' you with the rest of the group? Far as I could tell, he was hanging on the line, still engaged in his first decent. Some folks suggested you go up then down again - that would constitute your third decent on that dive (and subsequent third ascent). It was much more dangerous for you to go up and down, up and down, up and down in a relatively short period of time.

I think the DM should have told the rest of the group to stay in position, go down, collect you, and continue with the rest of the dive. Not leave you to your own devices, no matter how upset he (or she) may have been. Uncle Pug was right - what if you had been signaling for assistance?

Do I completely condone your actions? No. But they were realistic actions performed by countless divers.

Do I condone the DMs response and support his anger? No. His job is customer support and customer safety. You were one of the customers that could have been in danger. After making sure that the other divers remained in place, his responsibility was to collect you.

Unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right. Live and learn.

Lee

 

[erichK]

I'm doing my best to improve. Did a few recent dives off Vancouver Island. The first of two planned Race Rocks dive had to be moved to nearby Sword Island (another, diver panicked on losing a fin and blocked the ladder, causing us to miss the tricky tide "window") and was so murky, that, while I managed to (barely!) maintain visual contact with my 4-5 foot distant buddy, we aborted after about 5 minutes. On our second dive, actually at Race Rocks, with about 20 feet of vis, I also never lost visual contact...did make it difficult to really look at the sea life though...let alone take pics.

On the second pair of shore dives near Nanoose Bay with the wonderful George and CJ of Vancouver's Dive and Sea, I didn't even bother to take a camera. Managed to never lose contact even with the awkward threesome situation, but did have "fun" trying to maintain neutral buoyancy in a drysuit with an Alu 89 at 12-15 feet (were trying to swim in because of surf, and hadn't added quite enough weight after diving steel 95's at RR.)

An enduring problem with the buddy system is finding buddies who both want to do proceed at the same pace. Especially for photographers. Especially with group dives like the Saba ones. (Yes I should have come up, but as well as wanting to avoid yo-yoing, couldn't resist the chance to take a few shots with the camera I'd dragged thousands of miles...and any photographer knows how easily those "few quick shots" stretch into many minutes.) Anyway, was a good boy and a model diver...and didn't bring back a single pic.

I do appreciate the understanding people have shown. Fifty-seven years of living and a couple of decades of teaching, as well as a few experiences in really risky situations have taught me that while rules are important, they can never cover every situation, and also that they lose their value if they a taught as rote and rigidly applied.

The buddy system (which I've even taught, as a water safety instructor) is a valuable basic safety measure, as are all the guidelines for surfacing. But there are reasonably safe ways one can relax things a little, given calm waters and calm divers. One of the best buddy situations I've had was with a younger and more experienced diver who would use all but his last few hundred pounds of air to take colourful shallow water pics as I hovered over him, buoyancy close to neutral, snorkeling on the surface. There was a small increase in risk: switching to my reg, duckdiving and exhausting air would have taken a few extra secs. But we felt pretty safe.

erichK
saskatoon, sk

erichK

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

You're learning and making progress, that's good! And you have the nerve to ask "silly" questions, that's also very good! This is good for you!!

I didn't see in you posts wether you own your gear or wether you rent it. To become and stay a safe diver diving as much as possible is essential. Also get to know your gear, your own gear. To live in Canada means drysuit & steel tank to get the most out of it. Anyway, if you master drysuit and cold waters I'm sure diving in warm waters will be a breeze

And last, although your camera gives you the opportunity to share you memories, leave it on shore until you master your basics! Then, and only then, you will have the calmness and control you need to take great pictures. I'm still working on that!

 

[BigJetDriver]

Problems tend to cascade. Weight pocket loss... leads to hasty weightbelt donning .... leads to no access to inflator .... leads to uncontrolled descent ..... leads to loss of contact with the group. ... leads to you forgetting loss of contact procedures.

The rest of your dive went ok, but you probably should have decided that it wasn't your day and aborted.

I like what Charlie has to say here, with the exception of the need to restate his first sentence.

PROBLEMS ALWAYS CASCADE! :11: