f3nikon
Guest
alcina:
Well the poster did say "as always"
Strobe for Olympus 5050-C
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Well the poster did say "as always"
Yes, she did....
f3nikon:
Who said that?
Don't know who "you" is, but no one questioned Ike's quality. You are the only one who has brought up quality as an issue.
Who said that?
No one said the strobe wouldn't work with the camera.
People did say it wouldn't work with the preflash. Take advantage of the preflash, not ignore it. Even you yourself said that you have to "DISABLE the preflash". That's what was meant when someone said you couldn't take advantage of the advanced capabilities of the camera. The preflash is considered by many as an advanced capability. More advanced than manual control. The strobe you recommended was designed for a pre digital age. The strobe you recommended has no logic circuitry. It turns on and dumps all it has stored in its capacitor. No control other than a full dump.
No question, you can get the strobe to fire in sync with a camera that has a slave function in the flash menu such as the c5050, but the strobe can not take advantage of the camera's digital metering system simply because the strobe can not mimic the preflash.
Can not take advantage of the preflash.
Can not be used with ease in macro or super macro because of the power of the strobe. The supplied strobe arm is simply too short.
No flexibility if adding macro lenses or wide angle lenses to the rig. The c5050 has both available. But the base can not accept a second strobe arm without major mods. And the strobe is way too powerful for very close up distances offered by either adding a macro lens or using the onboard capabilities of super macro.
The strobe you recommend has an underwater guide number of 24 (ISO 100). If you wish to take an image using the macro capabilities of the strobe, say when the lens was 6" from strobe to subject.........a distance the c5050 is capable of capturing focus from in normal mode.........and the minimum aperture available on the camera is f/8, the strobe itself would therefore have to be at a distance of:
GN = Aperture times Distance
GN=24
A=8
D would then equal 3 feet
If you installed a diffuser that impeded the strobe output by one stop, resulting in a guide number of 17, you would still have to place the strobe over two feet away from the subject. How long is the strobe arm in that kit?
Who limits themselves to 2 feet or less from strobe to subject with an external strobe? And ironically as I pointed out, anything closer than two feet from strobe to subject when ISO is set to 100 and the minimum f/stop is used will overexpose the composition!
The only time I think you would have to limit yourself to two feet or less is if you were relying solely upon the onboard flash of the camera. But this thread is about adding an external strobe. And underwater strobes, at least the 50+ listed in the strobefinder, can illuminate a subject underwater beyond two feet.
Obviously with the A-35 in mind, and as clearly pointed with use of the Guide Number Formula, quite a lot.
Huh?
Do your links disagree that aperture has no bearing on depth of field? No question that focal length also plays a role in dof, but my point is that when you choose a full dump strobe, you sacrifice that flexibility of varying that distance by forcing the aperture and strobe to subject distance to be more concerned with the power of the strobe light.
If your strobe however had the ability to tone down its output, you could more easily vary your focal distance or play with aperture to minimize any chance of mastering the overpowering effect small sensors have on dof. Which is (dof) typically 4-5 times greater than film cousins.
We agree! Which is why if you choose an A-35 you have to be a minimum of two feet away at f/8!
I wish you had stated in advance your opinion about what photographers know and care about along with your suggestion for strobe choice. And if those same photographers you speak of really care about correctly exposing an image, they better do it from a distance further than two feet away if they choose your suggestion.
It would be unfortunate if the original poster, an acknowledged newbie seeking advise from those with personal experience, was not aware of that you have not used the strobe underwater that you are recommending.
Or have you? If you have, please share with us some of your underwater examples using the A-35 kit that highlight techniques necessary to properly expose a variety of compositions, that as you say, "can easily be achieved" .
thanks in advance,
b
Bob - again, another excellent, well-thought out and clearly written post. Thank you, your contributions to this thread have been extremely beneficial. Two posts are now linked in the Sticky (pink link) under strobes.
f3nikon
Guest
Oh stop it folks you’re killing me! 
Finally the root of the problem:
“Take advantage of the preflash, not ignore it. Even you yourself said that you have to "DISABLE the preflash". That's what was meant when someone said you couldn't take advantage of the advanced capabilities of the camera.”
“The preflash is considered by many as an advanced capability. More advanced than manual control. The strobe you recommended was designed for a pre digital age. The strobe you recommended has no logic circuitry. It turns on and dumps all it has stored in its capacitor. No control other than a full dump.”
The problem is that you or "many" seem to have a notion that preflash is some Magical Technology that will fix all exposure problems. Which is not really a problem because with digital cameras there is now an LCD read out for which to see if there are any corrections needed.
When in reality pre-flash, in regards to its use with digital cameras, is a “band aid” or a secondary fix to exposure control in digital cameras because the true, real time, closed looped feedback, TTL or Through The Lens exposure of FILM does NOT work with the digital CCD SENSOR!
With true TTL the light from the subject enters the camera’s lens and strikes the film plane. Some of the light striking the film is also reflected back towards a photo sensor mounted just below the film, this sensor provides the camera’s electronics with the light intensity data. Which is then used to send a “turn off strobe power” signal to the strobe. Real time measurement of the ACTUAL light, falling on to the recording media or FILM.
The problem with the digital camera’s recording media, a CCD sensor, does not have the same light reflectance qualities as Film. So there is no way of measuring the ACTUAL light striking the CCD sensor in digital.
This is where the Pre-flash comes in, what the digital camera designers have done was to mount the photo sensor OUTSIDE the camera just ABOVE the main lens, pointing towards the subject. The camera’s INTERNAL flash then fires off a series or burst of flashes towards the subject, the reflected light from the subject makes its way back towards the sensor (mounted above the camera’s lens). The light intensity data that is collected by the sensor is then feed into the camera’s electronics, for which is then processed and sends out the “guessed” INTERNAL flash power level that many yield the correct exposure.
The preflash works for the most part on land when nothing is blocking the photo sensor or INTERNAL flash…so what do they do when they place the camera in a U/W camera housing??? Exactly that! Block the INTERNAL flash to prevent overexposing the particles near the camera’s lens and inadvertently blocking the photo sensor above the lens because the lens port opening is not wide enough to let in and equal amount of light to the photo sensor and the CCD sensor (recording media).
So now you what to “advance control” an EXTERNAL strobe into WHAT??? Because the only way you can take a half_____ advantage of the preflash "band aid" system is to find a way to tap into (hotshoe) the control signal where the electronics is telling the INTERNAL flash when to turn off.
For example I have yet to see an Inon "TTL" strobe work as it should even if the test were perform by the Inon rep (Wetpixel) then ending up switching to semi auto or manual all together! Hey that sounds like a great investment to me...$1000 for a manual strobe!
The A35 comes with a diffuser which is more than enough to cover at a close range remember the rule about getting as close to your subject as possible or are you saying we should break this rule as well?
And speaking of "advance capability" who uses GUIDE NUMBERS in an "digital age"??? When there is now an LCD read out to SEE the correct exposure or not!
Finally the root of the problem:
“Take advantage of the preflash, not ignore it. Even you yourself said that you have to "DISABLE the preflash". That's what was meant when someone said you couldn't take advantage of the advanced capabilities of the camera.”
“The preflash is considered by many as an advanced capability. More advanced than manual control. The strobe you recommended was designed for a pre digital age. The strobe you recommended has no logic circuitry. It turns on and dumps all it has stored in its capacitor. No control other than a full dump.”
The problem is that you or "many" seem to have a notion that preflash is some Magical Technology that will fix all exposure problems. Which is not really a problem because with digital cameras there is now an LCD read out for which to see if there are any corrections needed.
When in reality pre-flash, in regards to its use with digital cameras, is a “band aid” or a secondary fix to exposure control in digital cameras because the true, real time, closed looped feedback, TTL or Through The Lens exposure of FILM does NOT work with the digital CCD SENSOR!
With true TTL the light from the subject enters the camera’s lens and strikes the film plane. Some of the light striking the film is also reflected back towards a photo sensor mounted just below the film, this sensor provides the camera’s electronics with the light intensity data. Which is then used to send a “turn off strobe power” signal to the strobe. Real time measurement of the ACTUAL light, falling on to the recording media or FILM.
The problem with the digital camera’s recording media, a CCD sensor, does not have the same light reflectance qualities as Film. So there is no way of measuring the ACTUAL light striking the CCD sensor in digital.
This is where the Pre-flash comes in, what the digital camera designers have done was to mount the photo sensor OUTSIDE the camera just ABOVE the main lens, pointing towards the subject. The camera’s INTERNAL flash then fires off a series or burst of flashes towards the subject, the reflected light from the subject makes its way back towards the sensor (mounted above the camera’s lens). The light intensity data that is collected by the sensor is then feed into the camera’s electronics, for which is then processed and sends out the “guessed” INTERNAL flash power level that many yield the correct exposure.
The preflash works for the most part on land when nothing is blocking the photo sensor or INTERNAL flash…so what do they do when they place the camera in a U/W camera housing??? Exactly that! Block the INTERNAL flash to prevent overexposing the particles near the camera’s lens and inadvertently blocking the photo sensor above the lens because the lens port opening is not wide enough to let in and equal amount of light to the photo sensor and the CCD sensor (recording media).
So now you what to “advance control” an EXTERNAL strobe into WHAT??? Because the only way you can take a half_____ advantage of the preflash "band aid" system is to find a way to tap into (hotshoe) the control signal where the electronics is telling the INTERNAL flash when to turn off.
For example I have yet to see an Inon "TTL" strobe work as it should even if the test were perform by the Inon rep (Wetpixel) then ending up switching to semi auto or manual all together! Hey that sounds like a great investment to me...$1000 for a manual strobe!
The A35 comes with a diffuser which is more than enough to cover at a close range remember the rule about getting as close to your subject as possible or are you saying we should break this rule as well?
And speaking of "advance capability" who uses GUIDE NUMBERS in an "digital age"??? When there is now an LCD read out to SEE the correct exposure or not!
f3nikon
Guest
"It would be unfortunate if the original poster, an acknowledged newbie seeking advise from those with personal experience, was not aware of that you have not used the strobe underwater that you are recommending."
"Or have you? If you have, please share with us some of your underwater examples using the A-35 kit that highlight techniques necessary to properly expose a variety of compositions, that as you say, "can easily be achieved" ."
I cannot download pictures here (software?) so here are some images that I loaned to a friend for his website, that were taken by the MV and A35 substrobe setups:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/60f43/#TL
All MANUAL mode aperture controlled exposures. So maybe you can also share some experiences from your strobes as well?
"Or have you? If you have, please share with us some of your underwater examples using the A-35 kit that highlight techniques necessary to properly expose a variety of compositions, that as you say, "can easily be achieved" ."
I cannot download pictures here (software?) so here are some images that I loaned to a friend for his website, that were taken by the MV and A35 substrobe setups:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/60f43/#TL
All MANUAL mode aperture controlled exposures. So maybe you can also share some experiences from your strobes as well?
f3nikon
Guest
"The only time I think you would have to limit yourself to two feet or less is if you were relying solely upon the onboard flash of the camera. But this thread is about adding an external strobe. And underwater strobes, at least the 50+ listed in the strobefinder, can illuminate a subject underwater beyond two feet."
I did not say that the A35 is limited to two feet or less, shooting up close is a basic rule in U/W photography or are you just trying to do a little spin here? The external strobe is used even on close ups because the internal flash will cast a shadow from the lens port, are you sure you have used all the strobes you have in strobe finder... underwater??? Or is that list just to peddle some expensive strobes that we may not need?
I did not say that the A35 is limited to two feet or less, shooting up close is a basic rule in U/W photography or are you just trying to do a little spin here? The external strobe is used even on close ups because the internal flash will cast a shadow from the lens port, are you sure you have used all the strobes you have in strobe finder... underwater??? Or is that list just to peddle some expensive strobes that we may not need?
bandit_TX
Contributor
Looks like the poor little flash was pumping out all it could and still couldn't light the scene. That's not much of a test of exposure control.
bandit_TX
Contributor
Some TTL shots with the Ikelite DS-125 and Canon 20D
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/shrimp3.jpg (night)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/golden.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/greenmoray.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/nudi.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/puffer.jpg (night)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/smallangel2.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/spottedlobster2.jpg (night)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/shrimp3.jpg (night)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/golden.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/greenmoray.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/nudi.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/puffer.jpg (night)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/smallangel2.jpg (C-5050, DS-125)
http://www.myoldtools.com/pictures/spottedlobster2.jpg (night)
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