Strobe for Canon S70 - WP-DC40
- Thread starter Gar
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Hey Gar - I just bought the same setup. I haven't shot with it yet, but I bought a Sunpak-G.
http://www.sunpak.jp/e/products/g_flash/index.html
Supposed to be rated to 148 feet. Seems to work okay on land, but I haven't gotten it wet yet. I got it from Leisure Pro for $179. I'm going to try to shoot with it this weekend - I'll let you know how it goes.
RiotNrrd
http://www.sunpak.jp/e/products/g_flash/index.html
Supposed to be rated to 148 feet. Seems to work okay on land, but I haven't gotten it wet yet. I got it from Leisure Pro for $179. I'm going to try to shoot with it this weekend - I'll let you know how it goes.
RiotNrrd
Gar Whaley:
I would suggest you spend the money and get a QUALITY strobe. I know that a good strobe will cost MORE than the camera and the housing (we have the same setup S70 and DC40) and we got the IKELIKE DS-125 w/ manual controler ($800) The main reason we went for the good strobe is...
We (my wife and I) spoke to our photographer friends, and they agreed that a good strobe can be a lifelong purchase, which will work with any other camera you buy, should you upgrade.
The recycle time on the strobe mentioned above is 9 SECONDS! How may shots can you MISS in 9 secs? Your camera is ready in 2 - 3 secs.
I would NOT RECOMMEND the flash shown above...
I would look at http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php and remember that you need a strobe that has the capability to cancel or ignore the pre-flash, if you intend to use P or AUTO mode. If you shoot in Manual mode, your camera DOES NOT pre-flash.
Good Luck on your hunt.
We (my wife and I) spoke to our photographer friends, and they agreed that a good strobe can be a lifelong purchase, which will work with any other camera you buy, should you upgrade.
The recycle time on the strobe mentioned above is 9 SECONDS! How may shots can you MISS in 9 secs? Your camera is ready in 2 - 3 secs.
I would NOT RECOMMEND the flash shown above...
I would look at http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php and remember that you need a strobe that has the capability to cancel or ignore the pre-flash, if you intend to use P or AUTO mode. If you shoot in Manual mode, your camera DOES NOT pre-flash.
Good Luck on your hunt.
I bought this http://www.adorama.com/IK394477.html?searchinfo=ds-125&item_no=1
It's the best price on the whole package... It includes everything you need.
I would honestly say though... if you're diving the Keys and doing reef dives there... you probably will be fine without an external strobe. If you're doing deep wrecks (SG, Duane) you may want to have the external strobe.
All of the NEWER photos in my gallery are with the S70, and on that trip, our strobe flooded on the 2nd day, so most of the photos my wife took were with the internal flash only. Most of them came out really great... I will say that the viz was really good, not too much potential for "backscatter". She did mostly use the diffuser that is built in to the DC40.
I know that the Ikelite isn't the cheapest option, but considering the versatility of it, you really can't go wrong... If you eventually upgrade to an SLR camera (our future hopes as well) the DS-125 is right there... (you might need another TTL cable)
BTW... Ikelite fixed our DS-125 for no charge, on the flooding issue... Great for customer service.
I will post photos that were shot with the strobe, but I left those on my computer in my Florida apt, and I won't be back in FL for a few weeks.
Good Luck, and happy shooting!
It's the best price on the whole package... It includes everything you need.
I would honestly say though... if you're diving the Keys and doing reef dives there... you probably will be fine without an external strobe. If you're doing deep wrecks (SG, Duane) you may want to have the external strobe.
All of the NEWER photos in my gallery are with the S70, and on that trip, our strobe flooded on the 2nd day, so most of the photos my wife took were with the internal flash only. Most of them came out really great... I will say that the viz was really good, not too much potential for "backscatter". She did mostly use the diffuser that is built in to the DC40.
I know that the Ikelite isn't the cheapest option, but considering the versatility of it, you really can't go wrong... If you eventually upgrade to an SLR camera (our future hopes as well) the DS-125 is right there... (you might need another TTL cable)
BTW... Ikelite fixed our DS-125 for no charge, on the flooding issue... Great for customer service.
I will post photos that were shot with the strobe, but I left those on my computer in my Florida apt, and I won't be back in FL for a few weeks.
Good Luck, and happy shooting!
Ryan
Contributor
No matter what strobe you use, I would also check out the line of Inon AD Lenses that are available for your camera. I would also not buy a tray now that would keep you from using these lenses in the future... (I suggest ULCS' Digital Tray w/ Padded Handle).
Inon offers a 100 deg wide angle, a dome port conversion for the wide angle that makes it a 160 deg. semi-fisheye, and an excellent macro lens that can be "stacked" to increase power. Examples live at inonamerica.com. These lenses "snap" on via a convenient one-touch bayonet, and can be stored in a lens caddy when not in use.
I have experience w/ Sea & Sea, Inon, and Ikelite products. The 125 is an excellent strobe, and would be my choice if I were planning to do mostly wide angle photography.
While it is no doubt in my best interest to say this, as I am a dealer for this equipment, I think it needs to be said- I would definately suggest purchasing from someone who is knowledgable about underwater photo equipment, and who will take the time to help you set up your system. Will <insert your NY discounter here> sell you a tray that is compatible w/ the accessory lenses you may want to add, or an arm that can accept the lens caddy? Have they used the s70 underwater, and can they offer suggestions on modes to use and how to set up your flash? Whether you choose Backscatter, Underwater Photo Tech, Marine Camera Distributors, or my company is your business, but I know that these companies will help you buy right the first time, and stand behind the products they sold you after the sale.
Inon offers a 100 deg wide angle, a dome port conversion for the wide angle that makes it a 160 deg. semi-fisheye, and an excellent macro lens that can be "stacked" to increase power. Examples live at inonamerica.com. These lenses "snap" on via a convenient one-touch bayonet, and can be stored in a lens caddy when not in use.
I have experience w/ Sea & Sea, Inon, and Ikelite products. The 125 is an excellent strobe, and would be my choice if I were planning to do mostly wide angle photography.
While it is no doubt in my best interest to say this, as I am a dealer for this equipment, I think it needs to be said- I would definately suggest purchasing from someone who is knowledgable about underwater photo equipment, and who will take the time to help you set up your system. Will <insert your NY discounter here> sell you a tray that is compatible w/ the accessory lenses you may want to add, or an arm that can accept the lens caddy? Have they used the s70 underwater, and can they offer suggestions on modes to use and how to set up your flash? Whether you choose Backscatter, Underwater Photo Tech, Marine Camera Distributors, or my company is your business, but I know that these companies will help you buy right the first time, and stand behind the products they sold you after the sale.
Interesting, Gar - you post your question on Monday. Everyone ignores you until Wednesday, when I make the (apparent) mistake of offering you what limited experience I have had so far. Immediately, two people respond not to your question but to my response. The first says that the Sunpak is a piece of junk, and suggests you buy an $800 Ikelite unit. The next guy rags on my buying from an Internet retailer. This was my first post. Looks like this is going to be a fun group.
I'm assuming you are like me - someone who is new to underwater photography. Buying this setup was a tough choice - I own a $1400 DSLR, and I was tempted to buy a bunch of Ikelite gear for it. But as new UW photographer, I'm not ready to dump $2000 on a setup to make my Canon waterproof. It makes more sense to try something less expensive. If I get to a point where I want to start making money with my underwater photos, maybe then I'll worry about dropping two grand on a housing and a strobe... but only if the gear I have isn't meeting my needs.
Now, I am new to UW photography, but I have been shooting for a long time. I worked as a newspaper photographer for a year, as a portrait photgrapher for two, and as a digital artist for four. One thing I can tell you as a fact - most often, it's not how expensive your camera and gear is, but it's whether you know how to use them. I can take a better picture with a point and shoot, a sunny day, and a piece of white cardboard than a lot of people can take with a top of the line digital camera. As they say, it's not the size of the pen, it's how you sign your name.
Sunpak has been making strobes for a _long_ time. I've used their non-UW gear several times in the past, and in fact still have a 1600A I use as a rimlight when I do portrait work. The Sunpak-G seems to be a decent stobe, from what I can tell.
I'll agree, comapred to the 1-second recycle time of the Ikelite, 9 seconds is a million years. But like all flashes I've ever seen, if you fire it at less than 100%, it takes less time to recycle. You probably don't want to shoot it at 100% anyway, you want to shoot it where it can meet your creative goals for f-stop and shutter speed.
The Sunpak has a guide number of around 70, so at full output, it puts out a decent amount of light (I think the GN for the S70 is around 10 or so). The GN of the Ikelite is 32 underwater - I'm guessing that translates to around 100 or so above water (guys, a little help here?). So while the Ikelite is brighter, I don't know that it is so much brighter to justify the major cost difference.
The Sunpak allows you to use preflash or no, and it seems to have good performance (on land, anyway). Your S camera can't use the TTL features of the Ikelite, so until you upgrade your camera and housing (probably to the tune of $1000 for a camera and $1000 for a housing), you get no real benefit from those functions. So from a purely photographic standpoint, it seems the Sunpak is a good general use flash.
Maybe I'm going to learn my lesson about how stupid it is not to buy an Ikelite system. If I do, I'll let you know. But at a price of $620 less than the Ikelite suggested, I'm willing to take the risk. $620 can get you some good dives.
Regarding Internet retailers, I know this is a hugely polarizing topic. I'll just say that to date, I have not had any problems. That doesn't mean I never will, and I recognize there may be inherently more risk doing business this way. But again, if I can save 20-40% on my gear, I can spend more money on trips (which is why I dive). Again, I'm willing to take that risk.
I'll keep you posted on how the Sunpak does. Good luck to you in your choice. I'm sure if you do buy the Ikelite, you'll be thrilled - high dollar equipment is usually really nice to work with. I'm just not sure you won't enjoy the Sunpak, as well as the extra money in your pocket. Time will tell.
RiotNrrd
I'm assuming you are like me - someone who is new to underwater photography. Buying this setup was a tough choice - I own a $1400 DSLR, and I was tempted to buy a bunch of Ikelite gear for it. But as new UW photographer, I'm not ready to dump $2000 on a setup to make my Canon waterproof. It makes more sense to try something less expensive. If I get to a point where I want to start making money with my underwater photos, maybe then I'll worry about dropping two grand on a housing and a strobe... but only if the gear I have isn't meeting my needs.
Now, I am new to UW photography, but I have been shooting for a long time. I worked as a newspaper photographer for a year, as a portrait photgrapher for two, and as a digital artist for four. One thing I can tell you as a fact - most often, it's not how expensive your camera and gear is, but it's whether you know how to use them. I can take a better picture with a point and shoot, a sunny day, and a piece of white cardboard than a lot of people can take with a top of the line digital camera. As they say, it's not the size of the pen, it's how you sign your name.
Sunpak has been making strobes for a _long_ time. I've used their non-UW gear several times in the past, and in fact still have a 1600A I use as a rimlight when I do portrait work. The Sunpak-G seems to be a decent stobe, from what I can tell.
I'll agree, comapred to the 1-second recycle time of the Ikelite, 9 seconds is a million years. But like all flashes I've ever seen, if you fire it at less than 100%, it takes less time to recycle. You probably don't want to shoot it at 100% anyway, you want to shoot it where it can meet your creative goals for f-stop and shutter speed.
The Sunpak has a guide number of around 70, so at full output, it puts out a decent amount of light (I think the GN for the S70 is around 10 or so). The GN of the Ikelite is 32 underwater - I'm guessing that translates to around 100 or so above water (guys, a little help here?). So while the Ikelite is brighter, I don't know that it is so much brighter to justify the major cost difference.
The Sunpak allows you to use preflash or no, and it seems to have good performance (on land, anyway). Your S camera can't use the TTL features of the Ikelite, so until you upgrade your camera and housing (probably to the tune of $1000 for a camera and $1000 for a housing), you get no real benefit from those functions. So from a purely photographic standpoint, it seems the Sunpak is a good general use flash.
Maybe I'm going to learn my lesson about how stupid it is not to buy an Ikelite system. If I do, I'll let you know. But at a price of $620 less than the Ikelite suggested, I'm willing to take the risk. $620 can get you some good dives.
Regarding Internet retailers, I know this is a hugely polarizing topic. I'll just say that to date, I have not had any problems. That doesn't mean I never will, and I recognize there may be inherently more risk doing business this way. But again, if I can save 20-40% on my gear, I can spend more money on trips (which is why I dive). Again, I'm willing to take that risk.
I'll keep you posted on how the Sunpak does. Good luck to you in your choice. I'm sure if you do buy the Ikelite, you'll be thrilled - high dollar equipment is usually really nice to work with. I'm just not sure you won't enjoy the Sunpak, as well as the extra money in your pocket. Time will tell.
RiotNrrd
Wow... a little defensive? I also spent a lot of time researching the strobes before deciding to make the $800 plunge on a flash for a camera that cost < $500.
I still wouldn't recommend the sunpak strobe to anyone (nothing personal it's not a rip on RiotNrrd it's an opinion), I would still look at digital diver's comparisons, and make an educated decision.
The ikelite strobe does had TTL features that are not useable on the S70 however, with the manual controller as suggested, you can pretty much use it with ANY camera... Pre-flash or not. It's very adjustable.
As I've said before... if you are looking to save money in the short term, you end up spending it later, when you want to upgrade... You may as well get the good one now, and save youself money LATER and NOT upgrade and have 2 of whatever it is you're buying.
I still wouldn't recommend the sunpak strobe to anyone (nothing personal it's not a rip on RiotNrrd it's an opinion), I would still look at digital diver's comparisons, and make an educated decision.
The ikelite strobe does had TTL features that are not useable on the S70 however, with the manual controller as suggested, you can pretty much use it with ANY camera... Pre-flash or not. It's very adjustable.
As I've said before... if you are looking to save money in the short term, you end up spending it later, when you want to upgrade... You may as well get the good one now, and save youself money LATER and NOT upgrade and have 2 of whatever it is you're buying.
Ryan
Contributor
Please accept my apology if my comments came across that way. 99% of our business is done on the internet, I wasn't bashing web-sellers, just making the point that I thought Gar should talk to a knowledgable reseller at some point in his decision making process.
As far as monitoring this site- I'm not here every day. I am a participant in DigitalDiver.net and Wetpixel.com, and would also encourage Gar to research his choice there.
I have used an S70 underwater.
We have chosen not to offer the Epoque or Sunpack strobes for various reasons, including poor build quality, long recycle times, and low output.
RonFrank
Contributor
howarde:
I could take all the arguments made above, and apply them to the camera you are using (which I also own). The bottom line is that I miss more good shots UW because my camera is slow to focus and fire. When I live within driving distance of diving where there are things worth shooting UW, I will put an SLR in a housing.
As for the G-Flash, can you really make a recommendation against it without actually using it?
The flash recycle is 7.5 seconds using NiMh batteries (which IMO why would one use anything else), and that is at full discharge. With a GN of 73ft ISO 100 it is highly unlikely that one will be using the full power setting in many situations, so the recycle time will be MUCH less for all but the times when one is shooting using stopped down apertures with subjects beyond 5'+.
Certainly the DS-125 is a VERY good flash, but IMO overkill for a PnS setup. As for lasting forever, I've owned no less that a dozen flashes (land use) over the years. Forever is more limited by technology, and of course usage. When I was shooting professionally had a couple flashes go south. TTL technology in UW equipment has been slow to develop, so count on upgrades. If your DS-125 is very recent, it *Might* support iTTL and eTTL. If it was old stock serial numbers up to 4999 it will need a $50 or $150 upgrade.
UW flashes are in general pathetic compared to land models that boast a HUGE amount of complex features (like wireless TTL/Slave-Master control, etc.), have much faster recycle times, much higher GN's, and costs a fraction of the price.
Sunpak has been a leader in flash manufacture for decades, so my hope is that the G-Flash does well, and they are inspired to add to the UW line and give the other UW makers a run for their money, because they so can.
The G-Flash has impressive specs for a flash in the under $400 pricerange with a GN better than many flashes selling for 3X the cost.
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