Starter Dive Computer

[Craig66]

I think he is referring to the fact that some open water courses are now done only with computers and no dive tables.

That's what I thought he was saying and was hoping he wasn't. Learning to dive without tables is like learning to run without crawling first. The first speedbump you hit will have you tumbling. It is really a pity as it leads to a greater lack of understanding of Dive physiology and physics.

This is certainly not the OPs fault but I do hope that he will seek out a better understanding of tables.

Of the several dive computer suggested all are good choices. I would suggest however that he not buy the bare bottom if possible as things like backlight and more than one button allow for a more user-friendly experience and make it less likely that he will need to repurchase showed his diving become more involved.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

---------- Post added August 26th, 2013 at 08:12 PM ----------

DG03 Dive Computer and Digital Gauge by Hollis Gear - Dive Gear Express

2 gas computer with DSS bungee mount for $270. Great price for a decent starter computer.

Is the DG03 not the just the VT3 in different clothing. I know it uses a different algorithm to the VT3 but I am not sure I would classify it as a starter computer. For the vast majority of recreational divers it is all they would ever need for a really great price.

I know the DG03 had some issues which should have been fixed with the firmware fix but even those issues related only to the AI component.

 

[drrich2]

If you use a computer that can log your dives, and download them to your computer, than an AI computer can automatically record start & end tank pressures and calculate a SAC, which makes logging pertinent dive info. easier without needing to write it down. On a high dive frequency trip like a week shore diving Bonaire, this is a nice feature.

Someone mentioned that if you got a Veo 2.0, you could add a download cable later to enable this functionality.

Not sure where the other suggestions stand on the air-integration option.

Craig:

A lot of people who learned tables to begin with (like me, in both basic OW and Nitrox courses) never use the things anymore! I bought and still have the stiff cards. The one thing I do occasionally glance at them for is to see what the NDL time for a square profile dive at a max. depth would be. If I someday get to dive the Oriskany and venture down to 130 feet, for example, I can see what the NDL would be. But since I don't have a pre-printed table for EAN 28, which I'd ideally be using to give me the best NDL with a MOD of 130 feet if memory serves (I checked into it a long time ago), then I'd have to either calculate the NDL or look it up online (or just enter the values into a computer or software and see what it gave me).

Tables basically model the idea that nitrogen builds up quickly the deeper you go, and takes quite awhile to fully dissipate from the body. I see the point that calculating residual nitrogen for repetitive dives drives home the idea, but a lot of people who do don't retain a meaningful capability, and go on to have a fine diving hobby (at the recreational level).

Richard.

 

[jeangadbois]

I have a cressi leonardo, one button, its easy to get the hang of and it has a backlight. I like it picked it up on sale around 300.

 

[DenbyS]

My first was the Mares Puck. A very good choice. I'd still be happy with it had it not been lost in Coz. Replacement was a Zoop, also a good first choice. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[moody s]

If you use a computer that can log your dives, and download them to your computer, than an AI computer can automatically record start & end tank pressures and calculate a SAC, which makes logging pertinent dive info. easier without needing to write it down. On a high dive frequency trip like a week shore diving Bonaire, this is a nice feature.

Someone mentioned that if you got a Veo 2.0, you could add a download cable later to enable this functionality.

Not sure where the other suggestions stand on the air-integration option.

Craig:

A lot of people who learned tables to begin with (like me, in both basic OW and Nitrox courses) never use the things anymore! I bought and still have the stiff cards. The one thing I do occasionally glance at them for is to see what the NDL time for a square profile dive at a max. depth would be. If I someday get to dive the Oriskany and venture down to 130 feet, for example, I can see what the NDL would be. But since I don't have a pre-printed table for EAN 28, which I'd ideally be using to give me the best NDL with a MOD of 130 feet if memory serves (I checked into it a long time ago), then I'd have to either calculate the NDL or look it up online (or just enter the values into a computer or software and see what it gave me).

Tables basically model the idea that nitrogen builds up quickly the deeper you go, and takes quite awhile to fully dissipate from the body. I see the point that calculating residual nitrogen for repetitive dives drives home the idea, but a lot of people who do don't retain a meaningful capability, and go on to have a fine diving hobby (at the recreational level).

Richard.

I think that everyone should learn how to use tables even if you fully intend to dive with a computer just because learning and using tables forces you to understand how nitrogen loading works where as if you just go the computer only route it is easy to fall into the trap of just doing what the computer says without really understanding the why's behind it. Then if you ever advance into the realm of tec diving your understanding of tables will be an asset. I take tables on every dive I make as a back up. I think the reason some agencies have cut tables from the programs is that takes up a fair bit of time, and is harder to teach on a course where the academics are being done all online. Even if you just do the computer version of an OW course ask your instructor to go over tables with you one day in the shop, I have yet to meet an instructor that would have a problem doing that and if they do then you know it's time to find another instructor.

 

[Scubadude_LA]

What fun616 said, DG03 is same as the oceanic and aeris version, good customer support great price and 3 gas computer if you move forward, but worry about 3 gases now, for another day. Plus add a transmitter later and you have an integrated hoseless computer. Some say the algorithm on it is less conservative than for example a suunto, and it is imo, but should never be an issue for recreational dives and proper ascents and not pushing the computer limits.

Exactly what the others said about a good working knowledge of tables (any table). I got my initial cert in the early 80's and it was tables only. From my perspective understanding the tables really helped me understand the use of computers later and what the computer was telling me and also helped me understand why some computers algorithms were more or less conservative. I feel that I would be a less informed diver and dive computer user without a background on tables, even from a safety perspective. Once you dive tables you will have a huge respect for what the computer is doing for you (to the point of maybe carrying a backup computer, we do on more involved dives) I've had computers malfunction twice so far without a total failure, still reading out some wacky stuff, and the only reason I knew not to trust the computer was the basic rough math learned from table diving.

Not the case for you now, but if you were to ever move into more advanced diving it's all table driven, plus some. For me, moving past no deco diving would have been like starting over with no prior working knowledge of tables. Decompression and dive planning software will also make a lot more sense to you.

But don't freak out Like the OP, I'm still a computer flyer in open water no decompression diving in comfy recreational conditions. But I will never regret a background in tables. Heck, I still have to have a semi annual bottle of vino slash table refresher course at the exclusive Cabernet Sauvignon Underwater Explorer Club, easy to get rusty on the darn tables...

 

[drrich2]

I think that everyone should learn how to use tables even if you fully intend to dive with a computer just because learning and using tables forces you to understand how nitrogen loading works where as if you just go the computer only route it is easy to fall into the trap of just doing what the computer says without really understanding the why's behind it.

While I didn't regret learning tables, it didn't teach the underlying info. of how nitrogen loading works, tissue compartments, decompression illness, etc... It just presented a different set of NDL limits which were identified in a different way and assumed square profiles, which caused dive times for typical multi-level reef dives to be cut needlessly short.

If the OP is interested, there are a number of threads on the forum hotly debating the value of tables in diving.

Richard.

 

[Craig66]

While I didn't regret learning tables, it didn't teach the underlying info. of how nitrogen loading works, tissue compartments, decompression illness, etc... It just presented a different set of NDL limits which were identified in a different way and assumed square profiles, which caused dive times for typical multi-level reef dives to be cut needlessly short.

If the OP is interested, there are a number of threads on the forum hotly debating the value of tables in diving.

Richard.

Rich, is it possible that you are not realizing the value of the tables even to yourself. I have read many of your posts and you seem to have a good understanding of dive physiology. I wonder if you are under estimating how tables helped you to obtain that knowledge.

I likewise rely on my computer very heavily but my understanding of the tables allows me to understand why my computer is telling me what it is telling me and certainly should I get a value that doesn't seem right it is my understanding of tables that allows me to identify that error and work around it.

As a physician I use very little information that I learned in my first 2 years at the medical school however had I not had that basis I would not be in the position to understand the things I currently use today.

The OP asked about a simple cheap computer and I certainly think we have given him several options. He also need should not feel bad about his training or or feel inadequately equipped. I do however feel that if he is going to be anything more than a occasional recreational diver that at some point it would be reasonable to spend some time learning and understanding the tables.

The reason why tables are not being taught I feel is related to PADIs attempt to bring diving to the masses and to keep it simple however at what point does it get too simple.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[tplyons]

When I was OW certified, we were taught computers only as they're more convenient and offer more bottom time (unless you're truly doing a square profile). Being the curious type that I am, I asked my instructor to teach me tables during my Nitrox course (learned how to use air tables, Nitrox tables, EAD tables) and to this day I still use my dive tables for planning and track my pressure groups despite using a computer. I believe in knowing the theory behind the diving and like to know what my computer is calculating.

That being said, I dive with computers. From day one, I bought a Mares Puck with the intention of using it as a backup when I could afford my dream computer, a Scubapro Galileo Luna. The Puck is easy to use with one button operation, easy to read big numbers, and was a great value at $325 when I bought it. However, its a much better deal if you can pick one up now for $175. It does Nitrox up to 50% and is a pleasure to use.

I have since bought my Galileo Luna and this comes on me every open water dive. My Luna is a $900 computer so its cost prohibitive for a new diver, but it has the advantage of being air integrated and is able to be upgraded for multiple gases, Trimix eventually. That being said, I still use my Puck as a backup (and use my tables as a backup for that) and I use it for my pool dives. It's generally stuffed in the pocket of my BCD in case my Luna fails; this way I don't have to end my day of diving.

 

[tracydr]

If you use a computer that can log your dives, and download them to your computer, than an AI computer can automatically record start & end tank pressures and calculate a SAC, which makes logging pertinent dive info. easier without needing to write it down. On a high dive frequency trip like a week shore diving Bonaire, this is a nice feature.

Someone mentioned that if you got a Veo 2.0, you could add a download cable later to enable this functionality.

Not sure where the other suggestions stand on the air-integration option.

Craig:

A lot of people who learned tables to begin with (like me, in both basic OW and Nitrox courses) never use the things anymore! I bought and still have the stiff cards. The one thing I do occasionally glance at them for is to see what the NDL time for a square profile dive at a max. depth would be. If I someday get to dive the Oriskany and venture down to 130 feet, for example, I can see what the NDL would be. But since I don't have a pre-printed table for EAN 28, which I'd ideally be using to give me the best NDL with a MOD of 130 feet if memory serves (I checked into it a long time ago), then I'd have to either calculate the NDL or look it up online (or just enter the values into a computer or software and see what it gave me).

Tables basically model the idea that nitrogen builds up quickly the deeper you go, and takes quite awhile to fully dissipate from the body. I see the point that calculating residual nitrogen for repetitive dives drives home the idea, but a lot of people who do don't retain a meaningful capability, and go on to have a fine diving hobby (at the recreational level).

Richard.

Or, if you had a Liquivisin Xeo, you could just run a test dive and see how the dive came out. I love being able to run through test dives on my computer.
Or, even better, get the V-planner and run it on your lap-top or phone.
Still, I do think a rudimentary understanding of tables is important for serious divers to understand how the computer actually works.