stab Jacket?

[gdwtvb]

First I want to thank everyone here. I recieved so much wonderful advice last time I posted and now I've got a second question. As a quick recap, Me and my Thirtten year old son are currently enrolled in classes. (after searching with advice found here we found a great SSI instructor and course.) We've completed 3 of five pool sessions and are scheduled for our open water checkout dives in FL the weekend before Christmas. Now although I really like the instructor and I feel we've both been getting great instruction, I've got a problem for the checkout dives. So far the equipment we've been using has been pretty good, (Rear inflation BCD Divetek "freedom pack") Well I just found out that the rental gear for our Florida trip includes a Stab Jacket BCD... Unless of course we want to purchase our own BCD before the trip. These Stabilizing Jackets look to be a good 25-30 years old, and having been introduced to using them at our first pool session, I'm not looking forward to using them down in FL. Obviously the dive shop has used freedom packs available for everyone as we've been using them every week. As a note I've already spent nearly 3 grand at the dive shop (classes $299 x2, Mask, fins snorkel, boots, aeroskin, gearbag, moutpieces, gloves, 3 rolls of tape to mark gear $700+ x2 trip to FL $399x2) all this was required gear to be bought at the shop as a requirement for lessons with the exception of the aeroskins. Now the gear is pretty good stuff (oceanic vortex v12 fins etc) but I can't help but think that the last minute info that we'll be using stab jackets on our open water is nothing but a thinly disguised money grab.

OK It's Christmas, My son and I will be getting a full kit eventually, but right now 2 new BCD's is a budget buster. (scuba lessons IS Christmas) I'm sure we'll pass our open water, either way but... well what do you think? Am I being overly critical?

I don't know if it matters or not but I've been getting alot of pressure to Buy more and more gear, the 2 hour counseling session, was mostly a sales pitch for Nitrox classes, package deals, etc. with 90 days same as cash. Also it was strongly suggested that we get at the minimum: a goody bag, goody bag clip, dive tool, dive watch with a movable bezel (apparently Casio G shock ain't good enough) before our open water trip, (all available in the shop at the front. And being students we get a discount, woohoo! in case you don't see it, I'm trying to inject sarcasm.)

anyway, I anxiously await any comments or insight. Thanks GDWTVB

 

[plot]

Glad you found a good instructor... sounds like you need to find a good shop now.

You can have your OW dives referred or transfered or whatever SSI calls it for a small fee. Then you can get your OW dives done through someone else... I'm sure plenty of people here can recommend decent SSI instructors in florida.

Where are you from?

 

[Damselfish]

No, you're not overly critical, this place sounds way out of line and certainly has no concern for your best interest. Nothing wrong with a shop _wanting_ you to buy stuff from them, but _requiring_ is another matter. It's not like they're even giving you a good deal on the class price for buying all this stuff.

I would insist on the good BCs for your trip and tell them you have no intention of buying a BC until after you're certified ... in the familiar and good gear you have been using. I might mumble things about bait and switch and the BBB. Make some noise - who cares this is not a place you want to do business with in the future anyway. If it's the only shop around, buy anything else over the net. It's nice to support your local shop, but these folks don't deserve your money.

If they refuse on the BCs, I'd be tempted to make other arrangements, but you like the instructor and I can't imagine this place would return your money for the trip. You might consider going on the trip and finishing with the instructor you like, and if the gear is really a problem rent BC's someplace there. It should not be that expensive and wherever you're going in FL there is probably no shortage of dive shops.

 

[Halthron]

In your position, I'd go on the trip and rent gear I liked there. if that's something you feel like doing, you might want to scroll down to the regional forums and post in the appropriate one, asking if anyone has a recommendation for a shop for you to rent from.

 

[spectrum]

Okay so the destination does not have the back inflate BC you are accustomed to. In training I had a different model size every week and it didn't matter. In the end they all work the same if you are comfortable with what you are doing. So my advice is to put away the notion that this is a ploy to pressure you into a pre-trip BCD purchase and go make the dives, just get a decent fit. You will be a better diver for it. What they are offering is pretty standard stuff and they are probably no more than 5 years old.

Mask, fins snorkel, boots, aeroskin, gearbag, mouthpieces, gloves, 3 rolls of tape to mark gear $700

Wow, I'd have a hard time finding stuff that costly, in terms of gear sales the mission is obvious. I would certainly shop around for further gear purchases. I'm not saying to go online but I'm sure there are othe shops that can take better care of you on purchases.

all this was required gear to be bought at the shop as a requirement for lessons

If the underlined phrase is true that is a red flag. It is not uncommon for instructors to want to inspect your gear for safety and for fit so you have a good in-class experieince. Insisting on an in-house purchase is just plain wrong.

2 hour counseling session/sales pitch?

Make your trip, get your card and then step back and make some objective decisions on future training and purchases. I think at this point they are expoiting the instructor - student relationship in the form of the wallet-vac.

Pete

 

[namabiru]

I'll agree. I stopped reading at the $700 and went back to make sure there wasn't anything else included in there. Yeah, um, that stuff really shouldn't have cost you more than, oh, I'd say $3-400 each, unless I'm adding up wrong. You don't need top-of-the-line right off. I've been using a $30 snorkeling set for mask/fins, and I'm now just upgrading, but it worked for starting out, when I, too, was poor.

There's something to say, though, about using the equipment you're familiar with when you go in the ocean. If not, and you're not comfortable with what they want to offer, do rent, and make sure they know you're renting and why.

For buying BCDs, have a look at the SB classifieds. Not pushing "our shop" for sales, but you can get some good deals in there. Just a thought for if and when you do decide to purchase.

 

[gdwtvb]

Thanks to all for the replies and insight. I'm trying to take the outlook that by completing our openwater in what I was told in class to be obsolete gear (Dive shop owners quote on our home study DVD) Me and my son will be better divers in the long run.

Pete I'd bet my right arm the jackets are at least 10 years old and I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that they're closer to twenty. I just saw one of the exact same faded orange models in another dive shop's display, right next to an old "navy diver" uniform, you know the one with the brass/bronze helmet. I priced the stuff, I've got on the internet and I could have saved $150 apiece easy.... eh live and learn. and after all, our gear is pretty top of the line so I guess it won't be due for upgrades any time soon. Thanks again to everyone. later GDWTVB

 

[*Floater*]

I wouldn't buy any more gear quite yet if I were you because you are new to the sport and probably don't know what's good and what's crap yet when it comes to gear. Stab jackets are fine. I use a backplate and wings myself, but my first 25 dives or so were on those jackets and I was happy with them at the time.

 

[spectrum]

What is the dive shop owner calling obsolete gear on his DVD? A so called stab jacket? AKA a stabilizing jacket or Jacket style BCD? If so, that is pure nonsense. Heaven knows plenty of divers enjoy back inflate and this board is crawling with BP&W fanatics but a jacket type BC is a perfectly valid piece of gear for the vast majority of divers. My only real point here is that this guy is pumping you and you son full of BS. Beware.

As a diver who got to dive lots of BCs while training let me offer some advice. Diving different rigs is no big deal. For the most part an inflator is an inflator. You should not have much if any ancillary gear to fuss with on these dives. But sure to study the straps and clips carefully before making your dives(s) where you have to get in and out of your rig. When you demonstrate that you can do this in unfamiliar gear you will have a reason to be confident. At worst you repeat to demonstrate proficiency, no big deal and perhaps more mask time for your money.

Pete I'd bet my right arm the jackets are at least 10 years old ...........
Well you saw pictures so I can't argue and personally have nothing to prove here. Keep in mind that orange BCs can be found (got to ScubaToys right now) and sun and chlorine are hard on the appearance of gear.

Good luck, we hope to hear a full report.

Pete

 

[james croft]

What I call a stab jacket was the ScubaPro Stabilizing jacket. I still have one in decent shape. It is old school, but not really vintage. I got it around 1986. Bright orange with an Air 2 on it. I don't see them around much, once in a while on Ebay. I am really surprised a dive shop is still using them. I would get a finish the course with someone who will treat you better.