SSI Open Water Certification: Some concerns

[Jerrod]

I have always wanted to be a scuba diver, so when my wife bought me a groupon for a discover scuba and some money off of the certification, I was very excited. But after going through the entire process, I thought I would lay out my thoughts to see if others felt the same way.

My criticism of the process and SSI, I assume holds true for not only SSI, but any other agency. I also preface what I am about to say with, this is my opinion, based off my experiences as an adult. Others may feel differently. This also has nothing to do with the shop I went to. It is a great place, people were always willing to sit and talk to me as well as offer additional sessions and even a refresher if I needed it after the training. I have read some bad reviews of other places, so I know my dive shop is excellent.

The training:
1. The DVDs that accompany the training are well made but don't even show the basic skills being performed, offer advise on how to perform them, or discuss how to handle things when they don't go totally according to plan. A simple youtube searched revealed multiple SSI videos demonstrating the skills. It just seems like this material should be in the videos.

2. The class room training and book was decent and the videos shown in the class were OK. My instructor was knowledgeable and supplemented the class with some outside materials. There is room for improvement, like official supplemental material, etc (or maybe my instructor just didn't hand it out).

3. The test is so basic, it is meant for anyone to pass. Having taught at the university level, I know a fluff test when I see, because I have taken and written many. I would go farther into detail about it, but I don't want to compromise the test by posting anything here. We all laughed after taking the test.

4. The pool sessions teach you the bare minimum skills, that if any of them were to occur in real life, a beginner could quickly forget the steps to perform them and freak out. I had 5 pool sessions, which is more than most people get, because our instructor said we needed more practice. Short of making it like a university course with 12 three hour sessions, I don't know how this could be improved and made economically feasible. I would like to see or hear some stats on basic open water training time vs. accidents.

Before I discuss my opinion on the checkouts and my overall opinion, I have a few questions.

1. What actually constitutes a dive to SSI? time, depth, air breathed? Is snorkeling considered a dive?

2. Is there a purpose to each particular checkout dive and can only those skills be demonstrated? If time remains, should additional skills or just diving be done?

3. In the pool, can an instructor teach a skill beyond the basics? For example, make the student dive down and put on a mask at 10 ft or so? What if the student requests this?

4. Several of the skills can't be demonstrated in open water because students freaked out? Is this not more of a reason to keep it in? While I am happy I didn't have to do things like turning the air off , am I not a worse diver because I haven't performed this skill in real life?

5. After completing the training and checkout dives, is a diver really qualified to go to 100 ft with only a buddy?

6. Why is there no self rescue skills taught? Surely people get tangled in things and need to know effective stress management to get untangled.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses.

Jerrod

 

[mala]

welcome to the forums mate.

i'll have a go at the questions but its been a while since my ssi days.

1-a training dive is usually a depth(5 or 6 meters) for a period of time (15 mins +) or an amont of gas used (1200 lts or so).
snorkling is not a dive.

2-each dive has its own requirements (some skills can be done on any of the dives)

3-no.

4-its just a basic course.

5-no the qual is for 18 meters in similar conditions.

6- resue skills are another course.
you dont need training to cut a line-you just need a knife.

 

[tstormdiver]

1. The DVDs that accompany the training are well made but don't even show the basic skills being performed, offer advise on how to perform them, or discuss how to handle things when they don't go totally according to plan. A simple youtube searched revealed multiple SSI videos demonstrating the skills. It just seems like this material should be in the videos. The procedures should have been discussed in greater detail in the classroom & the actual procedures gone through & practiced in the pool.

2. The class room training and book was decent and the videos shown in the class were OK. My instructor was knowledgeable and supplemented the class with some outside materials. There is room for improvement, like official supplemental material, etc (or maybe my instructor just didn't hand it out). There's not much "official" supplemental material to hand out. Any that I do hand out, has been created by myself.

3. The test is so basic, it is meant for anyone to pass. Having taught at the university level, I know a fluff test when I see, because I have taken and written many. I would go farther into detail about it, but I don't want to compromise the test by posting anything here. We all laughed after taking the test. The course (for nearly all agencies) is designed for those 10 yrs & older. Let's be real, a 10 yr old is not likely to be able to be able to pass an exam written at university levels. You might want to look into GUE courses, as I have heard they are written at a little higher level.

4. The pool sessions teach you the bare minimum skills, that if any of them were to occur in real life, a beginner could quickly forget the steps to perform them and freak out. I had 5 pool sessions, which is more than most people get, because our instructor said we needed more practice. Short of making it like a university course with 12 three hour sessions, I don't know how this could be improved and made economically feasible. I would like to see or hear some stats on basic open water training time vs. accidents. This is pretty much ALL at the instructor's discretion. It sounds like you probably got about the normal amount of time for such a course. Many are much shorter. It sounds like you were expecting a University course. It is not, nor ever was intended to be so. Our shop also teaches an SSI course for USI (University of Indiana). It is the exact same materials & skills, just drawn out over a greater amount of time.

Before I discuss my opinion on the checkouts and my overall opinion, I have a few questions.

1. What actually constitutes a dive to SSI? time, depth, air breathed? Is snorkeling considered a dive? SSI's standards Open Water evaluation dives are a minimum of 15 ft for 15 min. & a total bottom time for the course of 80 min. No real minimum on air consumed. Snorkeling dive is considered on its own (though can be done while out on a scuba dive). I do it with my students as they surface swim out to the trainiing platform for dive #1.

2. Is there a purpose to each particular checkout dive and can only those skills be demonstrated? If time remains, should additional skills or just diving be done? Generally (at least the way I conduct the dives), We will review skills done on the dive before, add additional skills, the we will just dive on a tour of our local quarry. The length of the dive, as long as it is within SSI's minimum standards is up to the instructor. I usually gauge mine off the air consumption of my students, so that they surface with no less than 500 psi.

3. In the pool, can an instructor teach a skill beyond the basics? For example, make the student dive down and put on a mask at 10 ft or so? What if the student requests this? Yes, SSI actually encourages the instructor to go beyond basic skills, but they do not have to. It is left up to the instructor. However, SSI has now forbidden the skill of "ditch & don" (you leave the equipment at the bottom, surface & go back down & put it back on) at all levels, because of dive industry injuries & risks, especially when it involves the student getting onto the scuba unit. Whether or not a student requests this, it would be a breach of the newest standards & is forbidden.

4. Several of the skills can't be demonstrated in open water because students freaked out? Is this not more of a reason to keep it in? While I am happy I didn't have to do things like turning the air off , am I not a worse diver because I haven't performed this skill in real life? There are skills that MUST be done in open water. The others are at the instructor's descretion. A simulated Out of Air drill (turning the air off) is to be performed ONLY in the pool by standards. There are such as skills weight belt removal & BC removal underwater, Emergency Buoyant Ascent, I will only cover only in the pool, because the temperate waters we must teach in require the student to wear thick wetsuits (ultra buoyant). There is too great a risk of the student losing contact with the weights or BC & making a dangerous, uncontrolled ascent.

5. After completing the training and checkout dives, is a diver really qualified to go to 100 ft with only a buddy? No, at the Open Water level you are qualified to safely dive with another Open Water Diver at or diver above your level (diving at your level) to 60 ft. 100 ft is the recommended maximum depth if the diver has gone through an Advanced Adventurer course with a deep dive done as one of the dives. After completing a full Deep Diver course the maximum depth you would be certified to dive to would be to 130 ft (recreational maximum limit), though SSI still recommends a maximum depth of 100 ft.

6. Why is there no self rescue skills taught? Surely people get tangled in things and need to know effective stress management to get untangled. Did you not go over skills like alternate air sharing? Lost buddy drills? cramp removal? Buddy tows? Emergency swimming ascent? Emergency Buoyant ascent? Breathing off a free flowing regulator? BC & weight belt removal under water (to potentially free yourself or make adjustments) & on the surface? These are all emergency & self- aid skills. Your instructor should have also gone over, even if just in lecture, how to break the panic cycle (stop, breathe, think & act). This is gone over in much greater detail in the Stress & Rescue course that you can take any time after your Open Water course. I personally think that Stress & rescue should be taught with the Open Water course, but time constraints for the students typically does not allow for that.

Hope that helps you out.

 

[Hawkwood]

Tammy, I am not an SSI Instructor, however that does not preclude me from saying that was a great response to the questions.

 

[yarik83]

If you look at the outline of SSI you will see that it, just like any other agency will present you with a long list of courses. It is easier and more profitable for them to teach you another class and charge you more. In SSI for example each book costs about $40 and each class costs about $60 making "specialty" programs cost $100 each.

I will not argue.... I think SSI's course books and ESPECIALLY dvds are absolutely pointlessly stupid. Myself being a SSI diver is currently trying to get my master diver certification and specialty programs seem a complete rip off. But having said that... there are programs that benefit you. I would recommend nitrox and stress and rescue.

SSI dvds look like they were made in 1974 and are NOTHING but a commercial for their other specialty courses. Quality of those videos is horrendous. Don't even get me started on sound quality.

Unfortunately at least in my opinion SSI curriculum seems very counter productive. It feels as if they say and I quote: "If you pay us X dollars you will have thse certifications with no effort on our part or on part of instructors." Perfect example of that would be boat diving class. I mean really?

But with all that said it should be noted that your diving career needs to go only as far as you want to take it. Much of what you will learn will come over time AND by diving with experienced divers.

Generally speaking your SSI class should introduce you to your equipment, then put you in a pool where you will be taught basic techniques. At some point you will be taken to a lake/quarry/spring and put at depth where you will demonstrate learned skills. Upon doing checkout dives you will find that you still have much to learn like buoyancy, breathing techniques, proper weighting, rescuing other divers etc. That is what specialty programs are for.

I should conclude that best training is often self taught. Once you are certified you should practice and polish your skills by diving. You can not learn how to be a better scuba diver if you only dive once a year.

 

[PatW]

You have obviously come to the conclusion Open Water Certification does not guaranyoe proficiency in scuba diving. That shows that you have good sense. Open Water exposes you to the skills you need to know. It is essentially a learner's permit.

If you continue in diving, you will need to gain experience to hone your skills. You can do this by diving, hopefully in easy situations at first and with an experieced diver.

 

[tstormdiver]

If you look at the outline of SSI you will see that it, just like any other agency will present you with a long list of courses. It is easier and more profitable for them to teach you another class and charge you more. In SSI for example each book costs about $40 and each class costs about $60 making "specialty" programs cost $100 each.

I will not argue.... I think SSI's course books and ESPECIALLY dvds are absolutely pointlessly stupid. Myself being a SSI diver is currently trying to get my master diver certification and specialty programs seem a complete rip off. But having said that... there are programs that benefit you. I would recommend nitrox and stress and rescue.

SSI dvds look like they were made in 1974 and are NOTHING but a commercial for their other specialty courses. Quality of those videos is horrendous. Don't even get me started on sound quality.

Unfortunately at least in my opinion SSI curriculum seems very counter productive. It feels as if they say and I quote: "If you pay us X dollars you will have thse certifications with no effort on our part or on part of instructors." Perfect example of that would be boat diving class. I mean really?

But with all that said it should be noted that your diving career needs to go only as far as you want to take it. Much of what you will learn will come over time AND by diving with experienced divers.

Generally speaking your SSI class should introduce you to your equipment, then put you in a pool where you will be taught basic techniques. At some point you will be taken to a lake/quarry/spring and put at depth where you will demonstrate learned skills. Upon doing checkout dives you will find that you still have much to learn like buoyancy, breathing techniques, proper weighting, rescuing other divers etc. That is what specialty programs are for.

I should conclude that best training is often self taught. Once you are certified you should practice and polish your skills by diving. You can not learn how to be a better scuba diver if you only dive once a year.

I will not deny that there is money made on specialty courses (SSI (or any other training agency) & the dive shops are a business, it's their job to make money), however there are other sides to the specialty classes that can be taken. There are some who do not want to go through the hassle of self- teaching. The mistakes have already been done & corrected. This makes the learning curve much quicker & easier. There are courses that also entail greater risk- Deep diving, Nitrox, overhead environment & such. Self- learning should absolutely not be undertaken, unless you really want to tempt fate & possibly become a statistic. These courses should be done under the supervision of a well qualified instructor who knows how to minimize the risks & can deal with emergency situations if they arise in such higher risk dives.

I personally will not allow any of my students to go on to Open Water evaluations until they have demonstrated to me they are comfortable with their equipment & skills & that they have mastered buoyancy enough to stay reasonably neutrally buoyant (though I do not demand perfection) & can do their most basic skills in neutral buoyancy.

I can guarantee you, Yarik83, whether I am teaching Open Water Diver or any specialty I am qualified to do,... I work my butt off to give my students the best I can offer of my skills & knowledge.

 

[t4e]

I personally will not allow any of my students to go on to Open Water evaluations until they have demonstrated to me they are comfortable with their equipment & skills & that they have mastered buoyancy enough to stay reasonably neutrally buoyant (though I do not demand perfection) & can do their most basic skills in neutral buoyancy.

now i'm curious how long they have to learn this, what is the length of your course?

 

[tstormdiver]

now i'm curious how long they have to learn this, what is the length of your course?

We typically do a minimum of 10 hrs of pool through the entire course. Week night classes 2 hr pool sessions, 1 night a week over 5 weeks or weekend courses go 4 sessions (2 consecutive Sat. & Sun.) with 2-1/2 hr pool sessions. If they do not have the comfort or mastery, I will not recommend them to go on to OW dives & will recommend more pool time for them, until they are comfortable & have the mastery of skills. Pretty simple

 

[t4e]

We typically do a minimum of 10 hrs of pool through the entire course. Week night classes 2 hr pool sessions, 1 night a week over 5 weeks or weekend courses go 4 sessions (2 consecutive Sat. & Sun.) with 2-1/2 hr pool sessions. If they do not have the comfort or mastery, I will not recommend them to go on to OW dives & will recommend more pool time for them, until they are comfortable & have the mastery of skills. Pretty simple

thanks, that sounds like adequate time
i always compare in terms of the length of our course which was double of what you do