sr10d vs sr12

[Scotttyd]

What are the main differences between these two cameras?
FYI, I have never used underwater camcorders, and only used them topside minimally without really worrying about quality issues.


When using the compare feature on sony's webiste the differences I see are:
1. imaging device is 1/5" vs 1/3" - how significant is this?
2. still picture resolution is significantly different, but not an issue to me.
3. minimum illumination is 5 lux for the sr12, and not listed for the sr10d

Is there a $200 difference in the cameras?
any advice is appreciated.

also in regards to the Cannon HF 10/11 - Can you adjust the white balance? How do these cameras compare to the sony?

 

[TheBigPhillyFish]

Well there is a few differences!

See this Comparison.

Still picture resolution 4 Meg versus 10.2 Meg
15x Optical zoom versus 12 x Optical zoom.
The HDR-SR10D is min. 8 lux illumination (lower number is better)
2.7" Viewer versus 3.2"
Assignable dial
Headphone Jack
$200.00 MSRP

If this is for underwater use, you want the HDR-SR12.

Hope the link helps.

 

[diversteve]

The SR12 CMOS chip has better than twice the image processor (sensor)
The SR12 has better than twice the effective resolution of the SR10D
SR12:
5.6 MP ClearVid CMOS sensor
Video Actual : 2860K Pixels (4:3), 3810K Pixels (16:9)
SR10D:
Imaging Device : 1/5" ClearVid CMOS sensor (with Exmor technology)
Pixel Gross : 2360K (2.3MP)
Video Actual : 1120K Pixels (4:3), 1490K Pixels (16:9)

No microphone jack on the SR10D so sound recorded through a housing would be muffled and you might hear drive noise during filming. Assuming your housing has an external microphone the SR12 might be the better choice if that's a consideration.

The 5 vs. 8 lux isn't a serious difference as it's only with Auto Slow Shutter on while shooting at 1/30th. Which will likely blur if there's any sudden camera motion.

Although I actually found this near the bottom of the SR10D specifications page:
White Balance : 5 lux (Auto Slow Shutter ON, 1/30 Shutter Speed )

So we can infer is that both are the same and Sony needs better proofreaders as White Balance should read Minimum Illumination.

Another option to consider is the SR11, it has the same 5.6MP CMOS chip as the SR12, just a 60GB instead of 120GB HDD. But realistically, since 60GB is over 7 hours at the highest HD resolution and double that at HQ, you'll have opened the housing 3-6 times to change the battery before you fill the drive. It's on Sonystyle at $849.

Zoom differences are immaterial since you'll likely be doing most of your shooting at/near wide angle. And only premium housings come with full-zoom thru ports, the rest will blur/get soft zoomed above about 70% typically.

White balance is not a function of the camera it's a function of the housing. Since it's done via touchscreen for Sony cameras, the housing mfr. has to provide a manual control for it. Current housings that provide it/optionally provide it are Ikelite, the L&M Bluefin (not on the StingrayHD), Ocean Images HC series or (I believe) the Aditech Mangrove.

The assignable dial on the SR12 is only useful if you choose a mechanical housing as the electronic housings control all the functions via Lanc. So that would be Ikelite and maybe Equinox?

I don't follow Canon cameras so I'm not certain if any housing mfr. provides it, but I would think Ikelite does.

 

[Scotttyd]

Thanks Steve for all the info.

I am going to get an ikelite housing, I have a camera housing from them, and from what other people say they seem to be the best for your money. I like the Sony camcorder, but the Canon housing is $500 less (1300 vs 800) and then only difference I can see is that with the canon you can see the actual viewfinder vs the reversed circuitry of the sony.

how does the assignable dial work (what is its function?), or does it work at all with the Ikelite housing?

 

[diversteve]

how does the assignable dial work (what is its function?), or does it work at all with the Ikelite housing?

I've got no idea but you can read about it here: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRSR11_handbook.pdf

I would ask Ikelite. They have a forum and rep here for those types of questions.

 

[bottomfeeder22]

I have the SR12 and Ike housing. I don't quite get what you mean by

"only difference I can see is that with the canon you can see the actual viewfinder vs the reversed circuitry of the sony.",

as you can see the actual viewfinder on the Sony also, and the reversing circuitry when plugged into the LANC port rights the mirrored image, though that will disable the sound. I found myself just using the viewfinder instead of the mirror most times.

 

[Scotttyd]

I have the SR12 and Ike housing. I don't quite get what you mean by

"only difference I can see is that with the canon you can see the actual viewfinder vs the reversed circuitry of the sony.",

as you can see the actual viewfinder on the Sony also, and the reversing circuitry when plugged into the LANC port rights the mirrored image, though that will disable the sound. I found myself just using the viewfinder instead of the mirror most times.

What I meant was is the cannon housing you use the LCD screen flipped open, and with the sony you have the mirror. I am not sure why that creates a $500 difference. I seem to lik the SR12 camcorder better, but I am trying to justify an overall cost difference.

 

[bottomfeeder22]

What I meant was is the cannon housing you use the LCD screen flipped open, and with the sony you have the mirror. I am not sure why that creates a $500 difference. I seem to lik the SR12 camcorder better, but I am trying to justify an overall cost difference.

Ahh, gotcha. Well, I can't speak for the Canon, but with the Sony, I found that I used my mirror w/ reversing circuitry for a little bit, but then moved to using the teeny viewfinder for 90% of my filming. Why? I was diving in the clear, sunny waters of Key Largo, and, especially at shallow depths, I found the mirror to wash out easily in the sun. Plus, I wanted the bubble sounds just in case I wanted to use them. Also, when the reversing circuitry is on, the touch screen doesn't work (for MWB, etc.)

It seems that the Canon housing has 3 knobs blocking its screen? May be annoying, don't know. I'm sure that being able to see the Canon's screen directly rather than on a mirror that can wash out would be an advantage. Then again, maybe not, as I've had my LCD wash out when doing topside footage as well. It sucks that we don't have the luxury of going out and handling/renting/using these comboes before buying, internet researching can be MADDENING!!! Good luck with your choice, and if it helps, I just posted my SR12's video of the Spiegel here. Really shaky, I know, it's tougher than I thought it would be! That's ok, I like a challenge.

 

[Scotttyd]

Ahh, gotcha. Well, I can't speak for the Canon, but with the Sony, I found that I used my mirror w/ reversing circuitry for a little bit, but then moved to using the teeny viewfinder for 90% of my filming. Why? I was diving in the clear, sunny waters of Key Largo, and, especially at shallow depths, I found the mirror to wash out easily in the sun. Plus, I wanted the bubble sounds just in case I wanted to use them. Also, when the reversing circuitry is on, the touch screen doesn't work (for MWB, etc.)

It seems that the Canon housing has 3 knobs blocking its screen? May be annoying, don't know. I'm sure that being able to see the Canon's screen directly rather than on a mirror that can wash out would be an advantage. Then again, maybe not, as I've had my LCD wash out when doing topside footage as well. It sucks that we don't have the luxury of going out and handling/renting/using these comboes before buying, internet researching can be MADDENING!!! Good luck with your choice, and if it helps, I just posted my SR12's video of the Spiegel here. Really shaky, I know, it's tougher than I thought it would be! That's ok, I like a challenge.

interesting, you cannot use the MWB when the reversed circuitry is on??? I did not know this, during a dive can you turn off the circuitry, use the MWB, and then turn it back on? If so, how much of a hassle is this?

I am debating between the SR11/12 or the canon HF 10/11 with an ikelite housing, I think the SR12 is possibly a slightly better camcorder, but I am not sure if the slight difference is worth the extra $ (the cost of the camera is similiar, but the housing is more $)

 

[bottomfeeder22]

Correct, you cannot MWB while the circuitry is on. Not a huge deal anyway b/c you can't MWB while recording either, so you have to stop anyway. Yes, you can turn off the circuitry during a dive, set MWB, and then turn it back on. That's what I did when I was using the mirror. It's not too much of a hassle, as turning the circuitry off is just one knob-push, and setting the MWB is 3 or 4 pushes on the touchscreen, with having to flip the wands around as well. I spent a few minutes setting the WB in the housing while topside before diving - it's not something you want to figure out underwater (bottom right icon, camera menu 3, MWB one push, point at white, then hit flower looking button).

As for your final decision, that's up to you, of course. I have a Canon still camera that I love, but ultimately went with Sony for HD b/c of the 120GB HDD. Over a week of diving and 20+ dives, I used up 40GB. The instant gratification of being able to HDMI straight out of the camcorder to a TV while drinking beers with my dive buds that night was a wise choice, I believe. Not sure what you'd have to do for the 16GB HF10 , dump to a laptop, then HDMI out of that to a tv? Might be a negligible difference in convenience, but something to think about.