lamont
Contributor
rjack321:
Well I think that following them up 5 ft is better than sitting 5 ft below them being a "buoyancy reference".
Halting the drill at that point may be a good idea like you point out...
Spotting for a valve drill
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Well I think that following them up 5 ft is better than sitting 5 ft below them being a "buoyancy reference".
Halting the drill at that point may be a good idea like you point out...
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lamont:
I have struggled on the "right" reaction to a buddy losing bouyancy for awhile. I'm not sure what the right thing to do is (still). Partially depends on the circumstances. Real vs. drill vs. simulated failure. Are you trying to help them train or develop the correct response in you for the "real thing"? Lots of issues surround when to "go get your buddy"
But bouyancy does need to be a very high priority. Everything else about the team, environment, equipment goes kaplooy when bouyancy control is lost.
lamont
Contributor
rjack321:
In real life I think you stick with them (don't allow separation), signal that they need to level off or go up or down, and if its getting extreme start taking actions to try to get it under some kind of control...
Being a buoyancy reference is great when you can stick the 20 fsw stop and your teammates are bouncing +/- 1 fsw around you, but if they're really losing control you need to be there with them...
PfcAJ
Contributor
Another point that I feel is extremely important is...where the heck is your backup reg? The purpose of a bungie'd backup is so that it is ALWAYS accessible.
If your backup reg is sometimes MIA at the beginning of a dive, can the same thing occure later on in the dive? You stated that you don't know why it gets pulled off to the side. It might be worth while to find out.
If your backup reg is sometimes MIA at the beginning of a dive, can the same thing occure later on in the dive? You stated that you don't know why it gets pulled off to the side. It might be worth while to find out.
ArcticDiver
Contributor
Well, there could have been a better pre-dive briefing to include emergency procedures. Communication could have been better. But, after reading both parties posts it seems to me they both did very well. Not perfect, but which one of us humans is? Certainly not anyone I know.
Plus, there, to me, is a great big positive in all this. Both divers demonstrated that they were thinking, self-sufficient divers with enough left over to help their partner if needed. That is the essence of team diving; that each is competent to do it on their own and has enough resources left over to help their partner.
Another postive is that both divers are more concerned about their performance than their egos. Not exactly a common thing in today's world.
So, a pat on the back to both.
Plus, there, to me, is a great big positive in all this. Both divers demonstrated that they were thinking, self-sufficient divers with enough left over to help their partner if needed. That is the essence of team diving; that each is competent to do it on their own and has enough resources left over to help their partner.
Another postive is that both divers are more concerned about their performance than their egos. Not exactly a common thing in today's world.
So, a pat on the back to both.
BabyDuck
Contributor
slightly related thoughts / scenario questions...
1 - i may, depending on circumstances, have my backup in my mouth & primary in my hand while watching valve drills
2 - once, i was watching a buddy shoot a bag (he'd only done it 3 or so times before). he did fine, and i turned to see that our third person had also shot one. i was so mad! i'm watching buddy b, so who's watching buddy c?? nobody. he had done a fine job, but that's not the point. so please, if you're performing drills, your spotter is there for a reason. take them seriously & expect them to take you seriously.
this is in no way a shot at lynne or ryan, just thoughts on drills & drill spotters.
1 - i may, depending on circumstances, have my backup in my mouth & primary in my hand while watching valve drills
2 - once, i was watching a buddy shoot a bag (he'd only done it 3 or so times before). he did fine, and i turned to see that our third person had also shot one. i was so mad! i'm watching buddy b, so who's watching buddy c?? nobody. he had done a fine job, but that's not the point. so please, if you're performing drills, your spotter is there for a reason. take them seriously & expect them to take you seriously.
this is in no way a shot at lynne or ryan, just thoughts on drills & drill spotters.
Quote post #20 by Lighting fish
"Why wouldn't you pop the backup (assuming you found it) in before clipping off the primary? The first time I did an OOG drill I was told that the backup goes in as soon as the primary comes out."
Anybody want to answer that?
"Why wouldn't you pop the backup (assuming you found it) in before clipping off the primary? The first time I did an OOG drill I was told that the backup goes in as soon as the primary comes out."
Anybody want to answer that?
OP
Well, actually, what I was taught about OOA drills is to make the donating gesture and make sure the OOA diver has taken the reg and put it in his mouth before seeing to my own backup. After all, one should be able to hold one's breath for at least 45 to 60 seconds, and it doesn't take that long to ensure everything has gone smoothly. On the other hand, if you drop your eyes to see to your own reg, you may miss something not going well for your buddy.
Clipping off the dead regulator in the valve drill can probably wait until after I've secured another working source of air, though. It just seemed like an easy gesture, to take the reg out of my mouth with my right hand and just clip it off. It wasn't hard to find and unclip when I needed it, either; it took longer to turn the post enough turns to have a good air supply.
On tonight's dive, I worried my buddy with a bag shoot -- I spent so much time with the reg out of my mouth while I organized the bag, spool and line that he had his reg ready to donate. But I was fine -- just a bit disorganized.
Clipping off the dead regulator in the valve drill can probably wait until after I've secured another working source of air, though. It just seemed like an easy gesture, to take the reg out of my mouth with my right hand and just clip it off. It wasn't hard to find and unclip when I needed it, either; it took longer to turn the post enough turns to have a good air supply.
On tonight's dive, I worried my buddy with a bag shoot -- I spent so much time with the reg out of my mouth while I organized the bag, spool and line that he had his reg ready to donate. But I was fine -- just a bit disorganized.
I think there´s a problem with doing to much drills in that it starts to create "drill-rules". The whole point of practicing these things is to develop "proper" reactions. Treat everything as if it was for real. With my regualar buddies we do unscheduled drills (OOAs etc) which is a great way of making sure that, at least everyone but the person who initiates the drill, takes it seriously...
The way I´ve been taught to do valve-drills is to let the "driller" handle their own "stuff" and just hang facing him/her, ready to donate. If anything goes south, you have gas available and during the drill you have a visual reference...Any misstakes are "real" and there´s no question of trying to correct a "bad" drill. If something doesen´t go according to plan, you stop the drill, reset and start from the beginning...
The way I´ve been taught to do valve-drills is to let the "driller" handle their own "stuff" and just hang facing him/her, ready to donate. If anything goes south, you have gas available and during the drill you have a visual reference...Any misstakes are "real" and there´s no question of trying to correct a "bad" drill. If something doesen´t go according to plan, you stop the drill, reset and start from the beginning...
OP
Which is basically what I did. I went back on my own primary reg, found and repositioned my backup, and started the drill over again. It went fine the second time.
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