split from Trimix in 100 dives

[Hyper-limits]

Rebreathers will always be more dangerous than OC, that's a fact we rebreather divers accept. Saying that, there is a lots of procedures learned during the MOD 1 course if things goes "poof" just like you learned on your OC training.

To be or become a good RB diver you need to dive your unit on regular basis, if you only dive it when doing very deep dive deeper than 350ft you will probably kill yourself for lack of practice and who in they right mind would spend 10K and leave it in the garage collecting dust.

Cheers

Al

 

[=C=]

So are you going to provide any proof, facts or evidence to back up this latest claim or are you going to do what you've done in the last 9 or 10 threads (ie just fail to respond to anyone challenging you and ignore the thread from then on) ?

Is google running slow today?

I would point out that over on rebreather world (register and have a look) fatalities by population seem rather high... I'm not sure if its the correlation of technology and options or that this is a "first adopter" market. It may very well be the case that Rebreahers are pefectly safe but the population it attracts is risk loving.

Cheers,
-C

 

[nereas]

Rebreathers will always be more dangerous than OC, that's a fact we rebreather divers accept...

Al

Someone please explain this to young String. Thanks.

 

[nereas]

I thought we're being a little too hard on Nereas. Now, I've never used a rebreather so I generally don't talk about them much. But if I did talk about them with a friend, and if we agreed that they're only good for dives below 300' and never for dives above that, some people might give us a hard time. For instance, they might say to me,

YOU STROKE. YOU IGNORANT STROKE. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CCRs? HOW CAN YOU EXPRESS AN OPINION OVER SOMETHING YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT? THAT'S BEING A STROKE OF THE FIRST DEGREE, YOU DUMB STROKE.

And I'd feel pretty bad if they said that to me. But then, if as I was talking to my friend about CCRs and he said how rebreather divers can never share gas, those same people might say to my friend,

STROKE! YOU'RE EVEN MORE OF A STROKE THAN I COULD HAVE IMAGINED! DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A BAILOUT BOTTLE? HONESTLY, DO YOU GET ALL OF YOUR DIVING INFOMRATION FROM GOOGLE? THAT'S THE VERY DEFINITION OF BEING A STROKE. NOBODY SHOULD DIVE WITH YOU, STROKE!

And that would be pretty hurtful of them to say that to my friend. But I don't know if they'd even stop there. They might, if they really wanted to be mean, turn to me and my friend, and to both of us they'd say,

MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED BY STROKES, AND YOU'RE THE WORST KIND. IT'S A GOOD THING YOU DON'T ACTUALLY DIVE, BECAUSE IF YOU DID AND YOU DID SO IN SUCH A STROKEY WAY, YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY!!

Anyways, that's what they'd say to us. But since I don't really talk about rebreathers in the first place, I don't think we'll ever hear anything like that.

In your case Gombessa I would worry more about your split fins getting caught in the cave line and then silting everyone else out. And then if the cave line snaps, your little group would be history, just like the Florida case where the guys were recovered tangled up in their own cave line.

It's the little things, like split fins, that can make you into a perfect storm.

 

[nereas]

So are you going to provide any proof, facts or evidence to back up this latest claim or are you going to do what you've done in the last 9 or 10 threads (ie just fail to respond to anyone challenging you and ignore the thread from then on) ?

Is google running slow today?

Hopefully someone else will take on the task of trying to educate you today, String.

With your limited technical training, there is a long, long way to go.

 

[HowardE]

Someone please explain this to young String. Thanks.

The sad fact here is that you're blaming the Unit, and not the operator.

How many recent incidents are because of mechanical (equipment) failure??

 

[Gombessa]

In your case Gombessa I would worry more about your split fins getting caught in the cave line and then silting everyone else out. And then if the cave line snaps, your little group would be history, just like the Florida case where the guys were recovered tangled up in their own cave line.

It's the little things, like split fins, that can make you into a perfect storm.

I don't see how splits would make a difference. We usually pull ourselves in and out of the cave on our hands and knees, and drop our weights while powerinflating to ascend when we reach open water. I think it might be easier with doubles cause it would help us stay down while in the caves, but I haven't found comfortable BCD yet that takes double tanks. Either way, the paddle fins cause just as much silt.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Rebreathers will always be more dangerous than OC, that's a fact we rebreather divers accept.

I beg to differ. They are certainly more complex. However, I would not say that they are more dangerous. Further, in many cases, a rebreather can actually offer options to the diver that make them lower risk than will open circuit diving in the same situation. Some examples follow.

Deep diving: Diver at depth is delayed by a few extra minutes before starting the ascent (due a hundred scenarios that I won't bother to state). On open circuit, at significant depths, just three extra minutes on the bottom can mean 20 extra minutes of decompression or more. Due to the delay, the open circuit diver is without almost any margin of reserve gas during the ascent (even if starting the dive with sufficient reserves per the dive plan).

Cave diving: Diver is in the cave, not far from the guideline but at the deepest part of the cave and the farthest point from the exit. A sudden, total silt out occurs (due to a hundred possible scenarios). Diver starts a lost line search but becomes disoriented. (Things like this have happened to even very experienced cave divers.) Diver finds the line eventually but runs out of gas during the exit.

There are several other similar examples, but you get the idea. A rebreather gives one critical thing over open circuit: time. Removing the time pressure element from technical dives allows the diver to focus on the dive without that small worry being everpresent in the back of the mind.

When the rebreather does fail in some way, it offers many options to still use the rebreather except for in the event of a flooded unit that cannot be cleared. For example: Flooded computer; use backup computer or go to backup tables. Run out of gas due to regulator or burst disk failure of the rebreather; plug in gas from emergency open circuit tank, and abort the dive normally. All functioning computers fail; plug in emergency offboard gas for horizontal swim portion of the dive (such as exiting the cave or wreck), operating the rebreather in semi-closed mode (take five breaths and then flush with new gas from tank), and then go to fully open circuit tanks during the ascent, allowing 80 cubic feet of gas to last as long as 400 cubic feet of gas would if going fully open circuit.

Don't get me wrong. If you are not the kind of diver that can remain focused on your equipment during the dive, you will quickly become a statistic on a rebreather. If you only dive a few times each year, they are not for you. They require dedication and practice in order to remain proficient. However, as I overheard Tom Mount say it best: "For the diligent diver, closed circuit rebreathers are actually safer than open circuit scuba."

 

[Meng_Tze]

... the Florida case where the guys were recovered tangled up in their own cave line.

Which case was that?

 

[ianr33]

Which case was that?

I'm guessing Eagles Nest, but I doubt they were wearing split fins.

http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7543 see post 162


Edit: They were both wearing Jets with springstraps. So once again Nereas is full if $%it

(Go to http://www.iucrr.org/aa.htm click on "Accident Reports" then " June 12 2004"