markfm:
Actually I believe it took her 7 minutes to travel through the pipe. That's a long time to make a spare air last!
Spare Air
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Actually I believe it took her 7 minutes to travel through the pipe. That's a long time to make a spare air last!
It's a crying shame that this cannot be debated intelligently. I mean we are splitting hairs here. There have been several good reasons/explanations for carrying spare air and no 'real' argument other than opinion against. If this is merely a case of 'old school rules' I feel sorry for the 'not so very experienced' divers reading this lengthy tome who won't know their a*%e from their elbow by the end of it!Kim:
Nobby:
Excuse me!! I have not had any part in this debate one way or the other. Someone commented about the lady who got sucked through the pipe as if to suggest that a spare air would have helped her. I simply pointed out in that situation it would have probably done her no good.
I think you owe me an apology.
KimKim:
There was no dig so don't be oversensitive. Your observation whilst correct did not add value to the debate this thread has now taken on. As I suggested your repsonse was not the issue. What's more the post was for the value of all that have contributed to this thread.
Fair enough....although I read a definite accusation of unintelligence there somewhere! 
I do think however that if someone makes a point in a debate which has absolutely no foundation in reality they should be called on it.
Personally I wouldn't rely on a spare air myself as I could buy a real pony for the same money more or less. On the other hand if a spare air makes the difference between life and death because of a few extra breaths - hey, it beats breathing water.
I think that the main reason that people are anti though is because of an often unreasonable expectation of what a spare air can do - and a false sense of security that someone can develop by over-reliance on it.
The things were designed to help downed chopper pilots. I think they can do a good job at that. I wouldn't want to be relying on getting up from 32 meters at the end of a dive because of an equipment failure and no available buddy with just a spare air. But that's just me.
I do think however that if someone makes a point in a debate which has absolutely no foundation in reality they should be called on it.
Personally I wouldn't rely on a spare air myself as I could buy a real pony for the same money more or less. On the other hand if a spare air makes the difference between life and death because of a few extra breaths - hey, it beats breathing water.
I think that the main reason that people are anti though is because of an often unreasonable expectation of what a spare air can do - and a false sense of security that someone can develop by over-reliance on it.
The things were designed to help downed chopper pilots. I think they can do a good job at that. I wouldn't want to be relying on getting up from 32 meters at the end of a dive because of an equipment failure and no available buddy with just a spare air. But that's just me.
Kim -- A reasonable point. For myself, I'm fairly new, high air consumption, looked at a spare air and thought it pretty close to useless. I plan to buy a real pony, decent size.
The point about the poor lady getting pulled through the pipe is that there is nothing that indicates she or her buddy did something bad, that the brown stuff can indeed hit the fan. A 3-1/2 knot "down" current can be a real surprise, likely also moderately silty due to the action, so you're just cruising slowly, fairly close together, and suddenly buddy drops like a rock and disappears. If I whap my first stage on said pipe, 19CF gives me at least a chance to get through. Someone with a lot of experience might make it on a 6.
The bit about being a responsible diver gets old when people don't recognize that truly weird stuff happens in the world, a forced separation/overhead actually can occur (since it did -- or do people think the story is made up?). Saying responsible divers won't have such events happen to them ignores the outside world, a disservice.
Should a newbie think that a 3CF spareair will get them up OK from 100'? No, at least not an air sucker like me. Might a 6 work for someone experienced, especially if they're moderately shallow? I suspect so. Do I plan on testing the theory? Hopefully not.
The point about the poor lady getting pulled through the pipe is that there is nothing that indicates she or her buddy did something bad, that the brown stuff can indeed hit the fan. A 3-1/2 knot "down" current can be a real surprise, likely also moderately silty due to the action, so you're just cruising slowly, fairly close together, and suddenly buddy drops like a rock and disappears. If I whap my first stage on said pipe, 19CF gives me at least a chance to get through. Someone with a lot of experience might make it on a 6.
The bit about being a responsible diver gets old when people don't recognize that truly weird stuff happens in the world, a forced separation/overhead actually can occur (since it did -- or do people think the story is made up?). Saying responsible divers won't have such events happen to them ignores the outside world, a disservice.
Should a newbie think that a 3CF spareair will get them up OK from 100'? No, at least not an air sucker like me. Might a 6 work for someone experienced, especially if they're moderately shallow? I suspect so. Do I plan on testing the theory? Hopefully not.
If you're going to carry some "spare air," it's pretty silly to carry only 3 cf when you can just as easily carry 19....
But the 3 CF looks "cute" 
Yes, based on chatting with people whose advice I value, at least for me a 19 seems right, and I personally have no idea when/how the really little ones would be of use (for me).
Yes, based on chatting with people whose advice I value, at least for me a 19 seems right, and I personally have no idea when/how the really little ones would be of use (for me).
JeffG
Contributor
It doen't look cute. It looks stupid and say volumes about the diver who carries it.markfm:But the 3 CF looks "cute"
Just because you have high gas consumption doesn't mean you should have a pony.
Jeff, stop casting aspersions on people's diving abilities. What makes you an expert other's diving ability according to the equipment they carry. Each to their own! Spare air only speaks volumes to the puritanical diving community that god forbid would use anything that was bright, colourful and of use (regardless of what you think) in an emergency. Just answer this question: Can spare air be used in an emergency and could it save your life? I think you'll find the answer. And remember diving is not a fashion contest, the only thing that looks stupid and speaks volumes is someone who refuses to move with the times; I suppose you'd rather have drum brakes on your car too, afterall disc brakes probably weren't about when you learned to drive!JeffG:
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