Spare Air: some thoughts

[Thalassamania]

I think that the point is that not all divers that are cetified today can perform a free-ascent / CESA from all depths in which they dive. To complicate this further, I'll go further to suggest that only a fewer number of these divers can complete this task successfully if they start it after exhaling (no breath). :shocked2:

I can not help but see this as an equipment solution to a skills problem. IMHO, if you teach them all how to hold their breath, you'll solve this and a myriad of other issues.

Just a couple of breaths would make a difference and have done so to many divers who have given testimonials supporting the use of Spare Air. Are these to be all discounted?

In all honesty the testimonials that I read are, by an large, proof positive that it is an equipment solution to a skill problem; they represent people using a Spare Air to get themselves out of situations that, frankly, should not be a problem.

It seems indisputable to me that situations could arise for the basic diver, where SA could make a tremendous difference to the safety of the diver. Certainly a Pony Bottle would prove to be an even superior device to have for some divers.

So would courses that equipped new divers with adequate free diving skills. If divers have such skills then the useful window of a Spare Air is so slim as to be basically worthless.

For me it's just not practical to bring a Pony with me when I travel; where there are others that don't mind. The discussion is more about how much air do you require in case a Free-ascent / CESA is needed? Some may say they don't need air, as it's optional, others need a 20 min supply and there are others (like me) that feel a few extra breaths are sufficient. How about you?

First of all, my primary backup is my buddy who is NEVER more than a short reach away. Even so, I try to routinely practice free ascents from 130 to 30, sometimes deeper, and I do a lot of free diving. I am comfortable and confident that I can do a 130 ft free ascent without equipment support. I am confident (though not comfortable) down to the limit of what I will dive on air.

I understand the "real world" issues that make a Spare Air seem a reasonable solution. But I feel that transporting a pony (even in this day and age) is not that much more difficult, and is an infinitely better solution. What is the problem? The flask is not that heavy; and it takes about twice the volume of a Spare Air. A friend of mine always travels with a brand new 30, no valve and no reg; he tells me that he has no trouble making arrangements with most operator to trade the pony for use of a valve and reg and a discount on his diving that more then equals his initial outlay.

On a philosophical level, would it not be preferable to solve the problem with training and skill development?

 

[DCBC]

I really like redundant air. I just don't like a tiny bottle of redundant air. ...If you want redundant air, bring a bunch of it.

So you would recommend that a new diver dive with a Pony Bottle on every dive. If they travel, to carry the Pony onto the aircraft so they can dive with redundant air. A little redundant air is meaningless. Go big or stay dry?

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

So you would recommend that a new diver dive with a Pony Bottle on every dive. If they travel, to carry the Pony onto the aircraft so they can dive with redundant air. A little redundant air is meaningless. Go big or stay dry?

If a new diver asked for my opinion, I would direct them to an instructor like yourself. But if we were all having a drink and chicken wings after a good day's diving, I would say that a new diver ought to dive conservatively within their training:

• Dive with a trusted buddy. Insta-buddies can wait until they have enough experience to know how to judge a buddy and to perform self-rescue.
• Stay above 60' until they have received training on how to safely dive to deeper depths.
• If they become separated from their buddy, search for a minute and then end the dive, just as they were taught in OW class.
• Avoid advanced dives such as those that have current and/or poor visibility until they have been properly trained in the special procedures needed to safely execute such dives.

If this were a question on the PADI OW written test, would you pass someone who said that it was appropriate for a new diver to go drift diving in low visibility at a depth where a CESA was unsafe, become separated from their buddy, and then carry on thinking that they can rely on a piece of equipment for which they had received no formal training?

I get the impression that when you folks are talking about new divers using SpareAirs, we are tacitly approving the idea of a new diver disregarding almost everything I recall being told in my PADI OW course.

 

[DCBC]

On a philosophical level, would it not be preferable to solve the problem with training and skill development?

I totally agree Thal. All instructors should teach to Navy standards, but first should be able to meet this standards themselves. You and I both know that the requirement for diver physical fitness and intense training is not likely to come back again. We (along with others like us) can hold the line, but don't even put a dint in the level of quality of diver training overall.

We've both waved the flag of what should be universally done, but "they" aren't listening to us. Standards continue to lower.

So where do you want the conversation to go from here? To talk about how things should be in the industry, or how things are?

 

[DCBC]

I get the impression that when you folks are talking about new divers using SpareAirs, we are tacitly approving the idea of a new diver disregarding almost everything I recall being told in my PADI OW course.

Absolutely not. As I have already stated, just because I have a spare tire in my trunk, I don't drive around looking for nails and glass. I teach my students that they have a responsibility to their buddy. Spare Air was designed for self-rescue. I see this piece of kit enhancing what has been taught to them (or hopefully taught to them, the jury's still out on that one). I fail to see the logic of someone calling me a bad diver because I choose to carry a few breaths of redundant air!?

 

[Web Monkey]

So you would recommend that a new diver dive with a Pony Bottle on every dive.

I recommend that new divers dive in conditions and at depths where they're qualified, and keep the skills learned in OW sharp enough to be useful. A safe emergency ascent from OW depths requires skills, not hardware.

My preferences for a recreational no-deco dive, in order are:

1. Don't run out of air
2. Stay within easy air-sharing distance with a well trained buddy
3. CESA

My preferences for any dive where a CESA doesn't give me a "warm and fuzzy" feeling, in order are:

1. Don't run out of air
2. Stay within easy air-sharing distance with a well trained buddy
3. Doubles or an appropriately sized pony, that allows for a nice slow ascent and any stops I'd to want to make.

If they travel, to carry the Pony onto the aircraft so they can dive with redundant air. A little redundant air is meaningless. Go big or stay dry?

Nope. I recommend #1 and #2, or yes, enjoying the snorkeling or some other activity instead of SCUBA. Anybody that can't plan and execute a safe dive and maintain good buddy distance probably shouldn't be diving anyway.

For redundancy, it's easy enough to carry a stage bottle harness and a spare reg, then pick up an extra 80 at the destination if a 30 or 40 isn't available.

A spare air makes people think they have a redundant air source that's big enough to "keep them safe" when they really don't. The fact that people buy them at all means that the buyers haven't actually done any gas usage calculations and/or don't beleive they're capable of a CESA.

Terry

 

[DCBC]

Anybody that can't plan and execute a safe dive and maintain good buddy distance probably shouldn't be diving anyway.

I don't know what to say to this Terry. It's either that you haven't been diving that long, or you've been very fortunate. I can't believe that you feel that a diver should only dive if he and his buddy are infallible; ot that he is in full control of everything that can happen to them. Speaking for myself, I certainly can't. I have to say that I'm pretty well trained and have gone OOA. Do I fall into the category of someone who shouldn't be diving as far as you're concerned?

A spare air makes people think they have a redundant air source that's big enough to "keep them safe" when they really don't. The fact that people buy them at all means that the buyers haven't actually done any gas usage calculations and/or don't beleive they're capable of a CESA.

I don't think that anyone can say what other people think.

 

[idocsteve]

IMHO, if you teach them all how to hold their breath, you'll solve this and a myriad of other issues.

Yeah when you teach them all how to hold their breath, they'll embolize on their very first ascent and they will probably choose to not dive anymore, if they're still alive.

I don't know that it's the BEST solution but it does prevent further problems.

 

[Blackwood]

Yeah when you teach them all how to hold their breath, they'll embolize on their very first ascent and they won't be diving anymore.

I don't know that it's the BEST solution but it does prevent further problems.

Not if you teach them how to do it properly... which was the point, as I'm sure you knew.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Absolutely not. As I have already stated, just because I have a spare tire in my trunk, I don't drive around looking for nails and glass. I teach my students that they have a responsibility to their buddy. Spare Air was designed for self-rescue. I see this piece of kit enhancing what has been taught to them (or hopefully taught to them, the jury's still out on that one). I fail to see the logic of someone calling me a bad diver because I choose to carry a few breaths of redundant air!?

I don't understand your response at all. I said nothing about automobiles and glass. Nor did I say anything about YOU. You were talking about new divers and asking if someone would suggest they carry a pony bottle. I suggest they dive within their training. Do you disagree?

If a new diver (not yourself) is diving within his training, do you agree that he is not in current and low visibility, is not at a depth where multiple breaths of air are necessary for a CESA, and is ending any dive where he is separated from his buddy?

If you agree this is what a new diver ought to be doing, then we should qualify your advice for new divers and be up front that we are talking about those new divers who choose to dive outside of their training. You can go from there with your advice about the real world of diving.

This has nothing to do with spare tires. You drive your car solo. The new diver stays close to home and drives in a convoy with someone who can give him a lift to the gas station.

Finally, who is saying you are a bad diver? Straw man alert! I am not saying that. I am not saying new divers who dive outside of their training are bad divers. I'm not even saying you are giving bad advice. I'm just trying to qualify your statements so we understand what exactly we are talking about.