Spare Air: some thoughts

[Blackwood]

Each of us is a product of our environment and experiences.

Way to bring us back full circle.

 

[Thalassamania]

Someone had to get us back on track.

 

[DCBC]

Why do you need a few breaths? Were you allowed to take a few breaths during your CESA training?

I think that the point is that not all divers that are certified today can perform a free-ascent / CESA from all depths in which they dive. To complicate this further, I'll go further to suggest that only a fewer number of these divers can complete this task successfully if they start it after exhaling (no breath). :shocked2:

Just a couple of breaths would make a difference and have done so to many divers who have given testimonials supporting the use of Spare Air. Are these to be all discounted?

It seems indisputable to me that situations could arise for the basic diver, where SA could make a tremendous difference to the safety of the diver. Certainly a Pony Bottle would prove to be an even superior device to have for some divers.

For me it's just not practical to bring a Pony with me when I travel; where there are others that don't mind. The discussion is more about how much air do you require in case a Free-ascent / CESA is needed? Some may say they don't need air, as it's optional, others need a 20 min supply and there are others (like me) that feel a few axtra breaths are sufficient. How about you?

 

[Blackwood]

Just a couple of breaths would make a difference and have done so to many divers who have given testimonials supporting the use of Spare Air. Are these to be all discounted?

I'd discount them because no one can say with certainty that they wouldn't have survived without a Spare Air. It's an impossible conclusion to make.

For me it's just not practical to bring a Pony with me when I travel; where there are others that don't mind. The discussion is more about how much air do you require in case a Free-ascent / CESA is needed? Some may say they don't need air, as it's optional, others need a 20 min supply and there are others (like me) that feel a few axtra breaths are sufficient. How about you?

Again, I'm just participating because I enjoy the process. If you want one, use one.

I dive with people who maintain reserve specifically for me in their large tanks. I do the same for them. Loss of gas is a catastrophic failure. Loss of buddy is a catastrophic failure. First catastrophic failure ends the dive. I'm playing the odds that since one failure is rare, two simultaneous failures is infinitesimal.

If such buddies aren't available and I still elect to dive, I'd do so conservatively such that I'd have a reasonable ability to perform self rescue. Worse comes to worst, I'd take a breath out of my wing.

 

[Web Monkey]

Hey Terry, I don't think anyone is saying not to dive without a Buddy. The point is that if you have to do a free-ascent / CESA it's safer to have a redundant air supply. Do you disagree?

Well, sort of. CESAs just aren't especially dangerous when done from within OW depths and no-deco table limits. From these depths, it's no more useful than a rabbit's foot.

And if a CESA can't be safely done, a SA isn't enough, since it doesn't allow for enough gas for a safety stop or even a reasonable ascent rate. In this case, a fully redundant reasonably-sized air source would be appropriate (either a good buddy, doubles or a decent sized pony).

My other gripe with the SA is that the people who are likely to run out of air and lose their buddy, and rely on a SA for safety are the same people who probably won't be able to remember to ditch weights on the surface and/or do an oral BC inflation.

I'd prefer that anybody who is thinking of buying a spare air, take the money and use it for a SCUBA Skills Update class and extra practice dives with a good buddy.

Terry

 

[Papa_Bear]

DCBC, So you bring up good points except if your worried stay closer to your buddy? I look at it this way if my buddy is 10ft away then that is the way I go, if they are 40ft away and I am 35ft down I am going up! Slow and easy!

 

[DCBC]

I guess my life has been a bit short on tropical vacations, during my temperate winters I'd ski, and once I moved to the tropics that somehow became irrelevant.

If most of us dove in the waters that you frequent, we wouldn't need a tropical vacation. If you dove in the waters I frequent, you'd be shivering for a month afterwords.

Each of us is a product of our environment and experiences. ...It only adds about an hour (including practice time) to the entire course, it does not providing them with an entire 100 hour course.

Thal, basic courses today are not 100 hours in duration. I could relate my Navy or Commercial instructional experiences, but it wouldn't be appropriate. It's no surprise that the requisite skill-sets required to complete these types of courses do not translate well into the Basic SCUBA Discussion thread.

My question to you, therefore, is might it not be better to apply to the recreational programs that you run what you have learned as a result of your somewhat broader experience, rather than pander to the party line and slap a Spare Air bandaid on the problem?

You are well aware of how I run my programs. Amazingly enough, I can transcend how I personally train and realize what's being done in the industry. Focusing on how we do things doesn't address the problem. This offers little benefit to certified divers out there, which have never performed a free-ascent / CESA with a full-breath, let alone without one.

I just don't see how taking a position against having redundant air can be seen as positive.

 

[Web Monkey]

I just don't see how taking a position against having redundant air can be seen as positive.

I really like redundant air. I just don't like a tiny bottle of redundant air.

Diving with a Spare Air is like showing up at a knife fight with the plastic thing the bartender stabs an olive with in a Martini.

If you want redundant air, bring a bunch of it.

Terry

 

[DCBC]

DCBC, So you bring up good points except if your worried stay closer to your buddy? I look at it this way if my buddy is 10ft away then that is the way I go, if they are 40ft away and I am 35ft down I am going up! Slow and easy!

Yes. Unfortunately I have been separated from my Buddy despite my best efforts. Mainly this has been caused by poor communication, high current or poor visibility. Although I do not claim to be perfect, even a perfect diver can be separated from his buddy and be deeper than 35 ft from the surface.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I just don't see how taking a position against having redundant air can be seen as positive.

I haven't seen anyone take a position against redundant air. I have seen some people take a position that by making certain choices about their buddies and their diving they can rely on their buddy as redundant air. I have seen other people take a position that a pony bottle is an appropriate source of redundant air. I myself have on certain dives made the choice to follow the DM very closely so that his tank was my redundant air on that dive. And so forth...

In short, the discussion is not for or against redundant air, the discussion is which choices a diver makes such that the SpareAir becomes the most appropriate source. I would characterize your arguments (perhaps unfairly) that some divers choose inadequate training, choose to forgo a pony bottle for reasons of expense or hassle, choose to dive without a buddy they can trust, choose to separate even from buddies they cannot trust (and thus choose to dive outside of their meagre training), choose to dive deeper than their perceived CESA range, and that for such divers a SpareAir is an appropriate recommendation.

Given all those choices, who can argue with you?