Solo vs. Buddy perspective

[grazie42]

I wouldn´t BUDDY with someone like that.
I would solo "with" someone like that (he won´t be part of my "universe" unless he silts or somthn).

It may just be a way to make it cristal clear that you´re both engaging on a solo-dive...

 

[TomP]

Regarding what constitutes "solo" diving, I think several of the posts here have been misunderstood.

I think of it in functional terms. Unless I have a buddy in visual contact and able to provide critical assistance in a timely manner, I'm solo at that point.

Let's see if there are some examples we can agree on.

Three guys on a boat go in the water at the same time for solo scallop dives in different directions. No expectation of being able to provide buddy support at depth. Solo.

You and your buddy plan a low vis dive and agree to continue solo if separation occurs and, sure enough, separation occurs. Solo after separation.

I arrive in the solo dive club dive bus with 20 other divers for the annual "clean the lake solo dive" and all divers spread along the shoreline and take headings that keep them separated for their entire dives, except for one guy who can't navigate and bumps into another diver for 30". Both indicate "okay". Solo for all except for those two who were in contact for a few seconds.

Any disagreement on this functional view of solo diving?

Dave C

Dave,
I pretty much agree with your scenarios as they all reflect what i believe is the essence of solo diving which is an intent to dive by ones self. It's a conscious decision to dive by yourself without the expectation of assistance from any other divers that might happen to occupy the local underwater environment.

That said, not everyone shares that view. One perspective is that, intent notwithstanding, the potential for other divers in the local environment to render assistance to, or obtain assistance from, a solo diver means that diver is not truly solo.

I'm fine with the many perspectives of what is solo. The important common ground from my view is centered around the self sufficiency skill set and mindset.

 

[TomP]

So now I wonder. Do you guys decide not to dive with him because of his"attitude"? Or is it because you are depending on his air?

I don't think too many contributors to this forum think in terms of dependency on other divers even when buddy diving.

To genericize the issue at hand - a buddy that is unwilling to render any practical level of aide to their buddy is in fact not a buddy. If ones intent is to dive solo, diving with a 'good' buddy is an accommodation, a bad buddy is a non-starter.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... When considering diving with a Buddy, they stated they were unwilling to Share Air, would that fact alone prevent you from diving with them?

Same question, same answer... I would not dive with them. I may target them as an object for education and elucidation on the nature of being a human being, but until they join humanity they're not suitable company.
Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

Same question, same answer... I would not dive with them. I may target them as an object for education and elucidation on the nature of being a human being, but until they join humanity they're not suitable company.
Rick

Man, think about having a buddy's death on your hands even if you did everything you could. And if you didn't, if you denied him or her air ... to my way of thinking Shakespeare had it right, “Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once.”

 

[dave4868]

Dave,
I pretty much agree with your scenarios as they all reflect what i believe is the essence of solo diving which is an intent to dive by ones self. It's a conscious decision to dive by yourself without the expectation of assistance from any other divers that might happen to occupy the local underwater environment.

That said, not everyone shares that view. One perspective is that, intent notwithstanding, the potential for other divers in the local environment to render assistance to, or obtain assistance from, a solo diver means that diver is not truly solo.

I'm fine with the many perspectives of what is solo. The important common ground from my view is centered around the self sufficiency skill set and mindset.

I agree the common ground of self sufficiency skill set and mindset is the important discussion, but it's just confusing and apparently pointless to have some scenarios of solo diving be invalidated as not being "true" solo diving.

NO. Solomeans you, the diver, isin the water ALONE, completely, on your own. There is no hypotehtical question as toa buddy or who will share air with the solodiver because there is NO buddy, no thought of a buddy and no consideration of a buddy because you are totally ALONE.

When I dive with a buddy, it is a whole different thing, I am prepared and ready to share air or whatever and perhaps in some cases my life for theirs.

Buddy divers often confuse exactly the meaning of solo. Not being directly responsible for another diver who nonetheless your in the water with is not--NOT-solo diving. It may share some aspects of solo diving but some is far from ALL. Solo is that---SOLO.

I assume you would also consider it solo if there were other people at the same divesite conducting independent dives?

If you arrived with them, then your with them. A group dive where there are no official buddy teams is not solo.

Nemrod, I may have misunderstood these posts, but are you saying that a solo diver, who is clearly diving functionally solo since he has no reasonable expectation of assistance, would be considered not truly solo because of some remote chance that another diver might happen by at the critical time of an incident?

In the examples I gave of solo diving, would you consider them not to be true solo dives?

Maybe you can give a specific example of a true solo dive and your reason for making the distinction.

Dave C

 

[Rick Murchison]

Man, think about having a buddy's death on your hands ...

Anyone who decides in advance that they won't share air isn't human enough to have another's death "on their hands." I've met folks like that. They really are sub-human and as guilt free as any other benthic slug.
Rick

 

[waterpirate]

I agree with Rick wholeheartedly, But the fact remains that subhuman people walk the planet and dive. It is my goal in life to stay as far from them as posible.
The distinction between solo and self suffeciant is quite clear. By Nemrods definition I never solo dive, however I dive alot and travel, and spearfish. I dive same day same ocean, never a buddy or instant buddy. The two are simmilar in philosophy but different when it comes to dive planning. I plan to get myself back safely with no reserve for non existant buddy.
However, coming across someone with a emergency of any kind and not rendering aid that does not jeapordise you is sub-human conduct.
We live in a litigation based society, I choose to limit my risk by not diving with a buddy period, due to the implied responsibility, however I have rendered aid to many divers on the boat and underwater as i am part of the human race.
If someone told me they would refuse me air on a boat I would not waste anymore time thinking about it or them then the person in rental gear who tells everyone on the boat about thier Doria charter last year, I simply move away quietly knowing that sooner not later, Darwins law not Boyles will have its way with them.
Eric

 

[Alex777]

Seems to me there are 3 distinct situations to be considered:

1) You have entered into an AGREEMENT with someone to buddy up;

2) You are doing a "true" solo dive - there aren't any other divers in the area;

3) There are other divers in the water, perhaps part of your "group" in the social sense, but you have not agreed to buddy up with anyone.

As for situation (1), I would never dive with someone who announced he wasn't planning to share air if needed, because he is repudiating the fundamental basis of a "buddy agreement"; he has a moral (and probably legal) duty to render as much assistance as he can to his buddy. I accept that obligation, even at the risk of my life, and he must do so also.

As for situation (2), the issue never arises.

As for situation (3), it would not matter to me if someone announced he wouldn't share air, because I am diving SOLO and have my own contingency plan. I might wonder about why he is announcing his intention, and I might make a note that he seems like an a__hole, but it wouldn't affect my intention to go diving; why should it?

 

[Thalassamania]

I always dive self-sufficient, usually with a buddy. A buddy is, to me, someone who is always close enough and skilled enough to intervene on my behalf in an emergency, on rare occasions I only have students, or I'm diving with my 11 year old son and so I don't have a buddy in the sense I define it. On those occasions I'm much more careful.