Solo PSD Rescue Dives

[TheAvatar]

Kayla. Why is it you *always* have to clarify what you say here? "Think first, then post." It will make things easier for you.

Honestly, is there a sure rescue scenario where there is no danger to the solo PSD diving? If that was the case, the RP would have already reached into the water and saved the person.

Remember: You didn't make that person go into the water.

IMHO Gregoire is 100% right that the SOPs are there for our protection.

(I would only consider it if it was someone I knew and really cared about and I would do it knowing that it might be my last team dive whether I lived or not)

 

[Kayla]

Kayla. Why is it you *always* have to clarify what you say here? "Think first, then post." It will make things easier for you.

Your right... I'll just watch from now on.. it will make things easier for all of us.

 

[ScubaTexan]

Kayla. Why is it you *always* have to clarify what you say here? "Think first, then post." It will make things easier for you.

Let's cut her a little slack, please? I could suggest the same thing to you.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Gary, how does OSHA play into this? I know OSHA has some pretty strict guidelines for confined space rescue and collapse rescue. Do they have any say in PSD work?

CF,

OSHA does not normally get involved UNTIL there is an accident involving a PSD team member, and sometimes not even then, depending upon the group or agency. If and when they do get involved, things get very sticky in a hurry. Landmark cases get cited as the basis for various violations, and so on. It is not something you would wish to be involved in personally.

Before anyone gets started: (1) Yes, PSD teams have some exemptions. (2) No, those exemptions do not cover normal operations.

Cheers!

 

[TheAvatar]

Let's cut her a little slack, please? I could suggest the same thing to you.

Could you? Nobody has been.

Whatever. I was trying to be friendly enough about it. She even agreed.

 

[bridgediver]

Before anyone gets started: (1) Yes, PSD teams have some exemptions. (2) No, those exemptions do not cover normal operations.

Cheers!

I'm not too clear about what you're saying here. What sort of exemptions are you refering to specifically? What is deemed "normal operations" is this with PSD or commercial work? I would think that a rescue performed by a PSD team IS a normal operation for them.

Here in the great white north our OH&S states there must be at minimum 1 primary diver, 1 tender and 1 backup or second diver for all ops. Naturally our SOG's reflect at least this requirement.
My personal feeling is unless I am witness to the victim submerging and can get them to the surface within 10mins of sinking I would probably wait until we could get them as planned. I realize that we would still be in rescue mode (1-2hrs depending on your SOG's) but anything after 10mins would not be worth even considering the risk of an unsupported diver.
FWIW I've never been faced with this situation as of yet

 

[rmediver2002]

I'm not too clear about what you're saying here. What sort of exemptions are you refering to specifically? What is deemed "normal operations" is this with PSD or commercial work? I would think that a rescue performed by a PSD team IS a normal operation for them.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9977

1910.401(a)(2)(ii)
Performed solely for search, rescue, or related public safety purposes by or under the control of a governmental agency

Rescues unfortunately are a rarety, for recovery operations there is no reason to risk the life of LEO's... ever...

For any diving operations (specifically commercial diving), they can also operate under exemption in an emergency situation:

1910.401(b)
Application in emergencies. An employer may deviate from the requirements of this standard to the extent necessary to prevent or minimize a situation which is likely to cause death, serious physical harm, or major environmental damage, provided that the employer:
..1910.401(b)(1)

1910.401(b)(1)
Notifies the Area Director, Occupational Safety and Health Administration within 48 hours of the onset of the emergency situation indicating the nature of the emergency and extent of the deviation from the prescribed regulations; and
1910.401(b)(2)
Upon request from the Area Director, submits such information in writing.

 

[Boater Dan]

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9977

1910.401(a)(2)(ii)
Performed solely for search, rescue, or related public safety purposes by or under the control of a governmental agency

Rescues unfortunately are a rarety, for recovery operations there is no reason to risk the life of LEO's... ever...

For any diving operations (specifically commercial diving), they can also operate under exemption in an emergency situation:

1910.401(b)
Application in emergencies. An employer may deviate from the requirements of this standard to the extent necessary to prevent or minimize a situation which is likely to cause death, serious physical harm, or major environmental damage, provided that the employer:
..1910.401(b)(1)

1910.401(b)(1)
Notifies the Area Director, Occupational Safety and Health Administration within 48 hours of the onset of the emergency situation indicating the nature of the emergency and extent of the deviation from the prescribed regulations; and
1910.401(b)(2)
Upon request from the Area Director, submits such information in writing.

Jeff:

As a fire department dive team, we are governed by the NFPA Guidelines and not OSHA. The question I had posed, was directed solely to rescue, not recovery. I would never endorse risking anyone for a recovery. In reality, I strongly endorse the risk benefit analysis before even commencing recovery dives. I have influenced dive cancellations due to conditions as a result of the analysis.

Thanks for the references!

Dan

 

[rmediver2002]

Jeff:

As a fire department dive team, we are governed by the NFPA Guidelines and not OSHA. The question I had posed, was directed solely to rescue, not recovery. I would never endorse risking anyone for a recovery. In reality, I strongly endorse the risk benefit analysis before even commencing recovery dives. I have influenced dive cancellations due to conditions as a result of the analysis.

Thanks for the references!

Dan

I was answering bridge divers question.

NFPA are guidelines only, if you are a paid department you are still required to meet the OSHA standard, anyone can exceed the standard but all have to meet the minimum. (although as someone already stated the regulations are not often enforced)

 

[Boater Dan]

I was answering bridge divers question.

)

Jeff:

Sorry! I only had a little time on-line last night and was hurrying through posts. I spent much of Friday and Saturday out with the FD dealing with the remanants of Ivan in Western PA.

We are a Volunteer Fire Department and we "try" to at least follow NFPA.